I’ve seen around 3 occasions of that this week, altho I have never seen anything like it before.
if I remember correctly they were:
- smack talking a mod (FlyingSquid) for saying not to report the same comment twice, when they were different comments, and the report was spam
- someone comparing .world with .ml in politics (as in there was a comment saying "this post will be overrun with .ml people, and then a comment going “but you are from .world”) (Maybe Im part of the problem? I have been called out for being a fascist because I questioned the “puching nazis” theme)
- one more which I can’t remember.
Anyways, what is all that about? Are people really starting to hate on 50% of the lemmy population because of their instance?
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someone comparing .world with .ml in politics
Everyone to the left of me is a psychotic delusion America-hating Tankie.
I’m a rational, centrist clear-eyed moderate making fact-based decisions using my extensive expertise on the subject matter.
Everyone to the right of me is a Russian bot or a troll.
I’ve been dunking on .world for a while but that’s because I’m a hipster and y’all are on the MCU instance
.world runs into issues because it’s overwhelmingly liberal and the mods are anti-Marxist on a platform built by Communists and dominated by leftists in general. They also defederated from the major Marxist instances. Lemmy.world is largely a replication of Reddit as well, so people leaving Reddit also don’t necessarily want that either.
It’s also by far the largest instance, not necessarily in a good way. It tends to dominate the fediverse and thus their mods and admins have an outsized voice, even if federation helps combat that issue.
Plenty of people like Lemmy.world, you’ll get different answers if you asked on another community like Lemmy.ml’s AskLemmy.
Plenty of people like Lemmy.world
It’s one of the easiest instances to join, thanks in no small part to the focus on growth over doctrinaire censorship. Consequently, a lot of people who don’t like .world end up joining it just to get access to the other more tightly administered communities.
They also defederated from the major Marxist instances.
From what I recall the issue was that users from those instances acted like weapons grade cunts and it was just easier to defederate from them rather than the admins and mods have to deal with all the issues that came with them. They didn’t block them simply because they’re Marxist instances.
They defederated from Hexbear “as a last resort-” before ever federating with Hexbear.
In the Lemmygrad defederation thread, there’s unsupported claims of hate speech and calls to violence, which we have to fill in the blanks - the mods are anti-Marxist and anti-revolution, so any Marxist instance is going to fail that test.
The Hexbear defederation thread is somehow worse when they list why instead of leaving it to the imagination. Read some of the top comments, it’s clear that it was anti-Socialist in motive. Real spooky scary zingers listed as evidence in the post like “The West’s role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.” This statement is 100% obvious to anyone not stanning the US Empire.
Another example listed is “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term “rules-based international order.” It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.” Yet again, they are defederated for being Marxists, and therefore being revolutionary. This is just because they are authentically Marxist, not because posters were mean.
The mods of Lemmy.world are Liberals. Not just any liberals, but “true believers.” Marxism is dangerous to them and so they shut it out, they spelled it out plainly.
Communists? Really? There is quite a gap between being leftist (which in itself is a term that generalizes multiple ideological position and political views. Look to my home country Denmark and see how many left leaning parties exists. None of them are Communists btw). Sorry if this comes off as arrogant, but are you from the US? I ask because I often see US citizen use this overgeneralization and seem lack knowledge on the difference between e.g. socialism and communism.
Look to my home country Denmark and see how many left leaning parties exists. None of them are Communists btw
Western bloc countries purged their governments of explicitly communist parties back in the 50s and 60s, during the hottest years of the Cold War. The parties that formed in their wake had many of the same ideological inclinations operating under different monikers. So you’ve got Red–Green Alliance and more left-leaning voices in the Social Democrats talking about public housing and land reform and a worker-lead democracy, just like explicit Communists in Cuba and Vietnam and South Africa and Korea and India were seventy years ago.
Similarly, “conservative” parties organized under UKIP, National Front, FDL, or the AfD espousing all the same racist, ultra-nationalist, imperial expansionist views common to 1930s European fascists. None of this shit is new in the material sense. It’s just fresh paint on the old frame.
Lemmy’s two main developers are communists so it’s a “platform built by Communists” just like @Cowbee@lemmy.ml said.
I’m a Marxist-Leninist, I’ve read over 2 dozen books on Marxism, you can check my comment history if you want. The lead developers of Lemmy are Communists.
Also, the Nordics are Social Democracies, not Socialist.
Sorry for the confusion regarding socialist and social democracies. Will have to look more into the difference between the two. Thanks for clearing that up.
No worries!
Essentially, Social Democracy is a Capitalist system with larger social safety nets, usually as a concession to prevent revolution. Marxist criticism of Social Democracy is that the Nordics, for example, fund their safety nets via brutal exploitation of the global south, and see sliding worker protections and eroding safety nets, because the bourgeoisie is still in control.
Socialism is, generally, a transitional state to Communism. Socialism is categorized by public ownership and central planning of industry as the primary mechanism of the economy (in Marxist terms, there are other forms of socialized production that aren’t marxist, like cooperatives). Examples of Actually Existing Socialist (AES) states include the PRC, USSR (pre-dissolution, obviously), Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, etc.
2·8 hours agoI think there is like one party in Folketinget that is even slightly left, Enhedslisten.
you’ll get different answers if you asked on another community like Lemmy.ml’s AskLemmy.
I suggested OP to do so yesterday, they did then removed their post, not sure why
“people” aren’t.
Remember two days ago when we learned Russia was spending several billions to sway foreign elections?
Peperidge farm remembers.
That’s not true! There are also useful idiots as well as actors (only the latter of which realize that a game is even being played). So the number of “people” is lower than apparent, yet nonzero.
As soon as you find a filter to segregate useful idiots from malfeasant LLMs please share!
Until then the whole mess gets tagged and flagged.
My biggest problem with .world is that people will just make up whatever they want about the out-group and everyone just believes it without question and with no interest in examining the
evidence.It’s a toxic element of the site’s culture that encourages circle-jerking and the automatic dismissal of opposing viewpoints while making intelligent and informed discussion impossible.The moderation is also pretty heavy-handed with censorship and things get removed for “misinformation” pretty frequently just because the mods disagree with it. You don’t have to go very far back in the modlog right now to find removed posts from Cowbee and Alcoholicorn, despite both backing up their arguments with published books from respectable authors. It’s best to avoid engaging with the mods at all, I got banned from World News because a mod couldn’t defend their position so they just banned me. There’s a pretty clear bias towards NATO and the US.
But like I said my main issue is the first point, and I’ll stop judging .worlders when I start to see people actually ask for evidence when someone says, “I saw a bunch of tankies eating kittens” instead of just blindly accepting it as fact because it’s about an out-group.
out-group
Can it be an out-group and also have totalitarian control of the platform structure?
These people made Lemmy. Sorry if their numbers are lower than average. I guess next time around they can make a no libruls allowid sign or something so the other 98% of humans know not to ruin their great fun.
totalitarian control
Lmao y’all are wild. Why are you on a platform where people you don’t like have, “totalitarian control” over the structure? Is it, perhaps, because they used this “totalitarian control” to create a structure that was decentralized and allowed communities to form that operated on different rules and different views? Doesn’t sound very totalitarian if you ask me.
Where’s that Parenti quote? Oh, found it! Evergreen quote:
"During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.
If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum."
-Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds
You literally just made up a strawman argument, which you then immediately cited as “evidence”?
Mods are busy. If this is what you tend to do, I don’t blame them one bit for not wanting to volunteer their unpaid time to deal with it - for the same reason I now understand better why some women would prefer the bear.
Now, please downvote me, you know you want to… just this once, I want you to know what it’s like to do something with the recipient’s consent.
for the same reason I now understand better why some women would prefer the bear.
Now, please downvote me, you know you want to… just this once, I want you to know what it’s like to do something with the recipient’s consent.
Lmao wtf are you talking about? Am I violating someone’s consent by holding beliefs they disagree with? Completely unhinged.
I don’t find any issues on .world. Yeah some people say dumb stuff, but that’s just the world isn’t it? I am sure there are others who think the same of me. It’s whatever, some people getting mad at .world are just mad they’re not in an echo chamber.
But other people complaining about trolls are right, there’s just no place for that. Report, block and move on. It’s not your job to educate anyone.
Easy, because it’s often home to some extreme and often bizarre opinions. It often makes Reddit seem civil and intellectual.
In the last month alone, I’ve seen:
- Downvotes for suggesting that if you were to ask Big Tech to split, they’ll probably just split in a way that keeps them aligned, while cutting unprofitable chunks out.
- Downvotes for suggesting that TikTok shouldn’t be banned for being “stupid”, given that most social media is stupid, and people often said that about the shit that many of us grew up with.
- Just endless nonsense about how you cannot print with Windows, like at all, while Linux (never stating a distro) “just works”. It’s clear that so many people in the tech community on lemmy.world haven’t used Windows for years.
- Crap about LLM’s and how providers like OpenAI are “dumb”, despite the fact that many use grounding and expert systems to guide towards correctness (literally what I work on in my job).
- Being so US-centric AND contrarian that you regularly see posts around how “Europe is so much better for this”, when Europe is a fucking continent with separate countries and their own laws/customs.
- Posts about how we can get “normies” to use Lemmy
None of the above would happen on Reddit. They’re all signs of communities that are detached from reality, so much so that on Mastodon there are several posts from people that have called Lemmy (basically meaning the “main” instance) out as being toxic and unfriendly compared to other fediverse offerings.
I disagree with your statement about not seeing this type of behaviour on Reddit and it appearing civil and intellectual comparison.
I used Reddit for around 15 years, and had never seen the above. Sure, it was toxic in other ways, but Lemmy in 2024 is basically 2004 Slashdot - just replace Bush with Trump, and it’s basically the same shit about how Microsoft is evil, anyone that doesn’t use Linux is a moron, and arguing about Star Trek.
Based, as the youngsters says.
Thank you for the detailed answer
I’d say the biggest criticism is that it’s the largest instance, and is also a “general purpose” instance, which sort of takes away from the main goal of the fediverse. When 90% of content comes from one instance, it opposes the goal of decentralization.
I chose lemdro.id because it’s nice and fast, the admins are very good, and its main topic is around technology/software which I like
I’m on db0 and we have lots of subs aren’t on .world. So it possible but you are right in general.
I don’t think the existence of large instances is in itself strictly antithetical to decentralization. The network effect makes them inevitable.
The power in the fediverse is everyone has a standard toolset to interact with the entire fediverse. Most people won’t, and that’s okay. The important thing is that, should larger communities become too oppresive as they gentrify, replacing them is a cheap decision, as you and everyone like-minded with you can squad up and leave at any time and lose nothing as the standard tooling of the platform facilitates that migration. You have mobility in the fediverse, and that permits choice to those who seek it.
This will stop being true once the larger instances start augmenting their experiences with proprietary nonsense. Features that only work there, that you can invest into and become dependant on, that you’d have to give up if you leave.
The day that happens will be the day that chunk of the Fediverse dies. Or, well, it won’t die, it will probably flourish and do very well. But it won’t be the Fediverse anymore. It will just be another knee-high-fence-gated community, that happens to run on Fediverse tech.
Thank you for your work on Photon!
There’s a “civility” rule that frowns upon accurately identifying given users as belonging to certain groups
I want you all to know that I’m happy you’re here, cis het white male frat boy from old wealth with an ivy league education or a neorospicy gay trans Jewish anarcho-communist and everything else out there.
While I won’t judge you on your instance, I will judge you on your ability to be a good neighbor. I’m always glad to see humility, kindness, empathy, comradery, etc. on display.
“We must therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate intolerance”
Karl Popper
It’s the Reddit people.
Reddit pereon here. After over a year (I think, didn’t check) on Lemmy I still don’t understand the details about how works. I’m pretty busy, and it works to get me my news and such, so it wasn’t important to understand how it does so.
But now I’m inspired, thanks for that. I will look into changing servers, finding something that better fits my interests and such. I may even perhaps learn something in the process. Keeping the network decentralized is important, and I can do my part.
You can just create another account in another instance and run them side by side in a singular app. Switching back and forth is simple. I have a couple, reasons can vary, one would be that .world decided to take pirating communities off, to protect themselves. Whether they needed to or not, doesn’t matter, it’s their choice. I just hop to another instance to see those, but most of the content will be the same for me across instances because I haven’t hunted to much for new subs. Probably should eventually.
It’s for porn, isn’t it?
Haha nah, when I first got to Lemmy I created an account on .ml, then .ca, made one on hexbear to understand who they were, one in world, and finally one on dbzero. Figured it couldn’t hurt to find a community of people that was nice. Oh wait, forgot fedia.io when I wanted to figure out what they meant by seeing upvotes/downvotes and who was making them so I could understand more about the interworking of the instances.
Mostly I use world and dbzero now in Jerboa, fedia.io opens in the mbin app, so I haven’t used it much. I kind of forgot about it till now.
You can easily export and import your subscriptions from the settings menu, so that makes changing instances quite easy
It’s a shame that there isn’t functionality for a full account port, including comments and posts.
That can easily be abused to overload instances with a lot of content. It’s also technically challenging due to the way comments are posts are linked
Mastodon does not offer it either:
Mastodon currently does not support importing posts or media due to technical limitations https://docs.joinmastodon.org/user/moving/
You can link to your former profile from your bio
Their for the tip.
Imo the best mods/admins are the ones I don’t have to interact with and oh boy did I interact with the admins of .world
Nice way to phrase it 😄
Its an incredibly pro US biased instance despite not being hosted in the US and having a .world domain.
Greatest hits are politics@lemmy.world forbidding non-US topics and of course news@lemmy.world and its bias check bot according to which every non US media is left wing biased.
Both should be blocked… It is DNC komissars run them subs
God that fucking bot.
The bot itself is only mildly offensive, but the fieflord bot-love is just repugnant.
About a month ago news did a “feedback about the bot” thing, in which they declared undying love for the bot above all things and declared any input other than breathless support for the bot to be vote manipulated misinformation.
There were about 3 mods involved, all contradicting each other, and themselves, very condescending, and very sooky and sulky. “One of the mods almost resigned over this!” kind of stuff.
You had to start every comment with “look I know you guys are doing your best and investing all your free time as volunteers but…”
To be fair, considering the right wing hellscape our (US) Overton window overlooks the bias bot might actually have a point.
The bot is bad and jonsjava is a real piece of shit just by themself.
Oh no. Just no. We’ve found more than enough cases of bias to call it unreliable at best and a cover for washing conservative sources at the worst.
What is this the third time I’ve agreed with you on something? See, common ground.
The bot posts in world news which allows non us news.
It not trying to criticize the right wing bias of political discourse it’s trying to normalize it and apply it to non US issues and media.
I was simply telling a joke, but point well taken.
.world is the biggest instance and therefore a prime choice for trolls to create accounts. Most of the trash posts I’ve seen lately are from brand new users on lemmy.world
I am equally suspicious of brand new lemmy.world users as I am of veterans of lemmy.ml. Older accounts on .world are usually pretty normal.
This is why I chose lemmynsfw. No one doubts our intent
Your comment has been noticed and new bots are inbound. Close your doors.
I want to upvote you, but your tally is at 69 right now.
Also no downvotes :)
How’s it like living in fantasy-land where every single one of your opinions online is correct and you can never be wrong? (/s in case you’re incredibly dull.)
It’s so incredibly stupid to not have downvotes fucking hell.
A big number of instances don’t federate with lemmynsfw though, so there’s a lot of users who don’t see the messages of the users from that instance.
Thank the gods.
I like to think of myself as normal lol
I’m here because kbin.social died and this was my next oldest account
Haven’t heard of the news. Do you mind telling me what happened to kbin?
The developer and admin, Ernest, went through a rough patch in his life. Development and server upkeep fell off during this time, and it wasn’t picked back up again. I don’t think anyone’s heard from him in a long while now, but I don’t really know.
I moved to fedia.io because it is basically kbin.social, but working.
I probably would have gone there, but I didn’t want to make another new account, so I just ended up falling back to one I already had.
I moved to kbin.earth (which later migrated to mbin).
Glad to hear kbin/mbin is still alive. Any good communities/“magazines” there I should check out?
I tried fedia.io, but it’s mobile website design is pure ass. It’s nice on my tablet, where there’s more room for the design to breathe a bit…but smooshed together on the cell phone layout, nothing makes sense. I want to like it, but I’m only on my tablet like 20% of the time. Cell phone is my main use.
There is an app: https://github.com/jwr1/interstellar/releases/tag/v0.6.0
Good to hear you found something that works for you. Personally, I’ve had no problems browsing on phone, though every right sidebar being in the top-left hamburger menu took a while to get used to
My twin, I was on kbin.social as well
lemmy.world is popular, which has its pros and cons. At least you didn’t pick hexbear lol
My first account in this place was on .ml because it was only them and beehaw at the time, and I ended up deleting it once controversy popped up lol
How dare you call me normal good sir.
In my experience (hexbear and .ml instances excluded) the majority of trolls I encounter seems to be from either infosec.pub or blahaj.zone
I usually see them from ee or sh.it.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Those blasted canadians.
I don’t hate LW, I even regularly post to a few LW communities. The sysadmins do a good job. There are a few debatable moderation decisions, but those are usually documented on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
The main issues I have with it is
- centralization of communities coupled with the current federation implementation creating 7-days delay for instance like aussie.zone (see !fedimemes@feddit.uk for a meme and discussion on that topic)
- their communities being the default means they can take controversial decisions and impact a topic for everyone until an alternative community emerges. See all the debates with the Media Bias Fact Checker bot, which in the end got removed from !world@lemmy.world (!globalnews@lemmy.zip for an alternative) but apparently it still on !politics@lemmy.world
- another consequence of centralization is impact of their being unavailable. People here might remember August 2023 when LW was under consistent DDoS attack, it was barely usable. This prevented a third of Lemmy total users to use Lemmy. Should they face a similar issue in the future, most of the Lemmy communities would be unusable.
Another point I haven’t seen mentioned is that they are still federated with Threads: https://fedipact.veganism.social/
They are the last large instance which still is.
