Not like “I went to school with one” but have had an actual friendship?
I’ve had a couple of conversations recently where people have confidently said things about the Black community that are ridiculously incorrect. The kind of shit where you can tell they grew up in a very white community and learned about Black history as a college freshman.
Disclaimer: I am white, but I grew up in a Black neighborhood. I was one of 3 white kids in my elementary school lol, including my brother.
I’m black 👀 This post kinda acts like there are no black people on lemmy but we here… at least I am lol
Welp, that makes 2 of us!
Guess we have to start our own instance now so we can talk about [redacted]!
You’re the first one in the thread lol
I know a couple of black people, but none of them is African-American.
I was born in the US, in Mississippi, but moved to Boston, Massachusetts, as a young adult. A significant portion of my friends were black as a child, and then I fell in with an international community of Haitian-, Nigerian-, and Latin-Americans when I moved to South Boston.
As with anywhere, most people are nice if you express interest in them and their cultures. There will be preconceived notions for some people towards you, and it’s important to understand that most stigmas stem from an absence of interaction. It can be surprisingly easy to break those barriers if you just make any sort of effort. It can sometimes be hard, but it’s so worth it. The kindest people I have met have been from these communities, mostly I think because they’ve worked so hard to build a better life for themselves and their families and friends.
Few things are as rewarding as being accepted into different communities. You learn and experience so much that you wouldn’t otherwise. My favorite experiences have been meeting the families of friends, being invited to cookouts with traditional foods and drink you have never had, and having an incredibly reliable community to lean on in times of hardship - we all help each other because we’re all in the rat race together. All it takes is some humility and a willingness to learn.
I know a couple. One was from Kenya, the other Sudan. I know a dozen or so Black Americans, several of which I have heard out right laugh at “African-American.”
Part of the problem is that the link to Africa was severed when their ancestors came here as slaves. Acknowledging that is pretty vital…
Yeah, I generally refer to the descendants of American slaves as Black (with a capital B) but I wanted my post title to be more recognizable to non-American audiences.
Grew up in a community that was whiter than yours was black.
4th grade was exciting: we had a new, native American student in my class! Everyone else was white. There were two adopted kids in my neighborhood that were brownish, raised quite white (islander and South American). The only black people in the city played for the university football team.
Moved away from there, did most of my work in music. Many black, Hispanic & Asian coworkers, some friends.
I'm back in my birth city now. Black & Hispanic people are now established portions of the population of the city.You know “the black community” isn’t a homogenous group right?
I’m a white guy who moved to Japan and it’s funny sometimes that a handful of people think we all must know each other (and all speak English though that’s true in my case).
In a certain sense, there’s no such thing as a homogenous group, period. But there are similarities between individuals with similar cultural background and historical context which makes it useful to talk about them as a group, while acknowledging that individuals will deviate from the average.
But there are a huge number of black people in the country with a huge number of cultural backgrounds.
Depends on how you slice em. A white person from Minnesota is very different from a white person in NYC, but it’s often useful to group both of them as white to contrast with, say, Asian. In the same sense, Asian can mean Chinese, and Chinese can mean Taiwanese, etc
Grouping people based on similarities is not inherently bad.
It’s decidedly not useful to say they have the same culture, though, because they don’t. There are common elements, but they’re nowhere near the majority, especially comparing those common elements to the common elements they also share with most black Americans because they’re American.
Well that’s a ridiculous take. So it becomes impossible to discuss culture?
Black people from Chicago, St Louis, and Oakland have cultural similarities. If you refuse to acknowledge that, you’ve taken “I don’t see race” so far you’ve looped back around to racism. This is exactly what I was getting at with the question.
Posting my reply to someone else.
I was born in the US, in Mississippi, but moved to Boston, Massachusetts, as a young adult. I am mixed from white and pacific islander - I look mostly white, just with Asian features - but a significant portion of my friends were black as a child, and then I fell in with an international community of Haitian-, Nigerian-, and Latin-Americans when I moved to South Boston.
As with anywhere, most people are nice if you express interest in them and their cultures. There will be preconceived notions for some people towards you, and it’s important to understand that most stigmas stem from an absence of interaction. It can be surprisingly easy to break those barriers if you just make any sort of effort. It can sometimes be hard, but it’s so worth it. The kindest people I have met have been from these communities, mostly I think because they’ve worked so hard to build a better life for themselves and their families and friends.
Few things are as rewarding as being accepted into different communities. You learn and experience so much that you wouldn’t otherwise. My favorite experiences have been meeting the families of friends, being invited to cookouts with traditional foods and drink you have never had, and having an incredibly reliable community to lean on in times of hardship - we all help each other because we’re all in the rat race together. All it takes is some humility and a willingness to learn.
I’m hesitant to answer such an odd question, but let’s go for it. Before answering, I think it’s important to establish two things. One, I was born and lived the vast majority of my life in the USA, tho I have spent over 2 years collectively outside of the country. Two, I’m white of skin, but ethnically Latino. I’m so white looking, that I can be in a social group of mostly Latinos for 3 months before anyone realizes I’m Latino myself.
My entire life, I’ve been around Black people. My 2nd friend ever was a Black Panamanian kid. I went to a school in Opa Locka, FL which is practically 99% Black. My high school girlfriend would technically be considered Black, who I saw her as her and if I had to label her race, she’d be “mulata” to me. Btw, “muIato” is not in anyway an insult in Latino culture. If anything, it’s a term of endearment. Moving on, I joined the military and worked along side and served under Black people. I currently have several friends and acquaintances that are Black. My neighbor is Blacker than midnight on Broadway and Myrtle. Jk, that’s an awesome Mos Def lyric. But seriously, my neighbor’s skin is like legit black as in the color, and I’m one of his maybe 3 total non-Black friends (he’s exclusive for a reason) and maybe the only white-skinned person that has been inside his house in the past 2 years. I spent this recent New Year’s with him and his friends at a party. I was the only non-Black person there. Also, I have teammates in my hobby and acquaintances in the larger social circle that are Black.
This is how I see it…
Black people aren’t Black people. They’re people. Nothing about them makes them Black. They’re just there being themselves. If you ask a little kid if they’re Black, they will look at their skin and answer based on their objective perception. As such, Black people vary in every characteristic just like any other set of humans that are grouped by a physical feature.
However, Black are Black people because of history and current state of society. African-Americans are representing a group of people that have a common history, ascribed place in society, and resulting culture. That’s what makes them Black: the way they were treated for centuries, the way they are treated now, and the way they endure it. The way I personally understand it in my head, Black people are the expression of a group of humans that have been singled out, used, and treated poorly by the rest of society based on a completely irrelevant physical characteristic that cannot be hidden.
As far as immigrants, Black people that come to the US often find themselves in an odd situation. They don’t fit in well with dominant White people because of their skin color, and they don’t fit in well with Black people because of their culture. Not all White people are racist, but some are. Some are overtly racist, while others are more covert or even unaware. Being racist is generally understood as an immoral thing, so some racist people learn to hide it. Others that are trying their best to be just, think they aren’t racist, but are based on their values and behaviors. What I mean by this is that they may hold values that are incompatible or oppressive of the Black community, yet have absolutely no problem with anyone based solely on their skin color. A supervisor at work may have no issue with anyone’s skin color, but rate their employee’s performance in part by their use of “proper English” and attire. Due to covert racism, most people of color start to become mistrusting of White people because they don’t know who is and who isn’t racist at face value. Back to focusing on immigrants, African-Americans think that many immigrant Black people haven’t endured life in the US as Black enough to fit in. Immigrants in general come with a different set of values, and in particular, a strong belief that hard work results in economic success. This belief often clashes with the experience of African-Americans. The conflict results in a disconnect between African-Americans and Black immigrants.
I’ve always been someone that cheers for the underdog. I don’t know what it is, but I do. Maybe it’s my 'tism, always having felt like an outsider and being bullied, I’m forced to empathize with underdogs. Regardless, to me, Black people are the shit. The way they have adjusted to society has lead them to develop awesome perspectives, skills, and contributions. For example, they were historically given the least favored food, so they learned how to make that delicious which made them amazing cooks. They are marginalized and neglected by society, so they created counter-culture such as blues, rock, hip-hop, and jazz to express injustice, pain, and pride in overcoming hardship. Almost any popular music that has come out of the US has its roots in the African-American community. They are oppressed in the workforce, so they became amazing athletes in which success is extremely objective. It makes no sense to oppress Willy Mays when he’s blatantly the one carrying the team.
They have also developed an extraordinary sense of social awareness. Whenever I go somewhere and there aren’t any Black people around, I get concerned. Either the place I’m at is actively restricting their participation, or they know something I don’t and are choosing to stay away. I could be wrong, but I still notice when it happens.
Additionally, as ethnic outsiders with justified and necessary collective hyper-vigilance, they are aware of what other ethnic groups do differently. So, when they talk about it, I find it interesting because it teases apart what is universally American and what is based on sub-group ethnicity.
They have also developed a sense of community I haven’t seen in other ethnic groups. Black people take care of each other, and as long as someone isn’t a problem to the group, no one from their group is excluded based on undesirable characteristics (mental issues, substance dependence, criminal history, etc.). They all accept each other and seem to have an understanding that life is hard, so of course people adjust in unhealthy ways sometimes. In fact, my neighbor definitely has his issues, but he still has visitors more days than not. And they always come with some sort of gift. I’ve luckily fallen into his social circle a little, and they check up on me sometimes too. I have never had this experience with other neighbors.
Something else I’ve noticed among Black people is that they are more emotionally free and fun. In contrast, White people seem controlled and restricted. It’s like White people have a standard for emotional control and respect. It’s considered rude to be emotional and wild. Black people don’t really follow that. If they feel excited, they will yell. If they have a lot of energy and there’s a good beat, they will dance. If they lose someone, they will cry and yell in pain. I’m not saying White people don’t do those things, but it’s different. Let me illustrate with an example. If someone is dancing at a White party, it’s either very good dancing moves that were practiced, or something soft and individual or with one other person. If someone is dancing at a Black party, it’s more likely to be extravagant, full of emotion, and collective with a group. Of course, there is overlap, such as rural White people and line dancing, so I’m having difficulty explaining it. I guess my running observational theory is that White people dancing are saying “look at what I can do” and Black people are saying “look at how I feel”.
That’s it from me. If I insulted anyone or was incorrect, please let me know. My only goal was to express how I saw things and encourage further conversation. I would be happy to receive respectful critique as I know I am not perfect and always looking to continually grow.
I’ve had a couple of conversations recently where people have confidently said things about the Black community that are ridiculously incorrect
Do tell.
Well, not living in America certainly makes it difficult to start friendships with African American people.
But all the black people I know are extremely annoyed at the automatic assumption that their culture is Africa American.
I grew up in a country where there was no black people at all when I was born. It wasn’t till much later that black people could be seen about in larger cities as students or tourists, usually a bit of a tourist attraction themselves.
Whenever I went to the west my parents always asked if I saw any {hard r n-word}s about. I don’t think they even knew it was offensive.
I try my best as a progressive to be anti-racist, but I have no clue about black people honestly or what problems if any they face in the UK apart from discrimination by the police and home office, as people they seem alien and strange, and in London all PoC in general I saw seemed to have no interest in interacting outside of strictly religious/ethnic/national lines and i don’t mind that, though it did make uni cliques seem more like ethnostates.
It is very difficult to be anti-racist if you fundamentally don’t understand the struggles of the oppressed. Sometimes you can do more harm than good, despite your best intentions, simply because you have no knowledge of the issues.
The Ibram X. Kendi quote that spawned the idea (among white people) of anti-racism was a good one:
The opposite of racist isn’t ‘not racist.’ It is ‘anti-racist.’
But as a Black man, he inevitably approached the subject from a bone-deep understanding of racism almost from birth. I think he failed to consider people who were so far removed from the struggles of Black people that they legitimately had no understanding of the issue.
I think that if you are ignorant of the issues, or have a surface-level understanding (the white college kids I mentioned in the OP), it is sometimes best to simply be nonracist rather than anti-racist…or perhaps better to be anti-racist in the sense of “I oppose the concept of racism”. But this idea of “I must take action!!!” is…not terribly helpful if you have no idea what you’re doing. It’s like going to a poverty stricken neighborhood planning to build houses for the homeless, but you have no experience in carpentry or plumbing or roofing or anything. Your heart is in the right place, but please. Slow down. Take your cues from those who have lived through it.
I have had close friendships with two black people. One was originally from Usa (which probably qualified him as African American for your question), the other was originally fom Nigeria, but was a German citizen.
I live in Germany btw. where nearly everybody has white skin color.
Right, I know we have a lot of international users here on lemmy, so I wanted to specify Black Americans, the descendents of slaves. For instance, one of my friends and coworkers is a very dark skinned Tunisian, but that’s a very different culture than the one I was asking about.
No, I am only German, not international.
Do you exist in a nation?
*whoosh*
oh wow, it’s been like a decade since I saw someone do a “*whoosh*”
Did you just praise yourself for doing a thing you hadn’t seen in a long time?
Based move on their part, even if I do not agree on the ‘whoosh’, hahahah
I don’t get out a lot period, but my friend is black. They live out of state, but we talk on the phone a couple times a week.
Now, on one hand, its a sample size of 1. On the other hand, that’s a solid 50% of my social circle.
That being said, “black culture” varies just as much as “white culture”. You’re trying to generalize a massive number of people, and you’d probably be surprised how hard that is. I don’t think you could pin down any single cultural element as being ubiquitous among black Americans.
Nothing is ubiquitous among any large group of people, but to suggest it’s useless to speak about people as groups because of it is silly. People of similar cultural background have commonalities.
I live in Canada. In Canada we just call them “people” or “Canadians”.
I’ve met, worked, and work with African Americans in the US.
I’ve heard lots of racist whites call black people “Canadians” when they want to speak in code. e.g., “lots of Canadians here tonight.” You know what word they’re using behind closed doors.
Assholes are going to asshole.
We don’t have African Americans here, we have black people. We don’t call them African Americans because most black people in my country are not from Africa (we have a large Caribbean population) and they are not American.
I told a coworker this once and they went from saying African Americans to just loudly whisper the word black like it was a derogatory term.
Generally speaking, Black people prefer to be called Black. I’ve had a few discussions over the years and Black works best because it’s not some made up white guilt term (African-American), and is capitalized in the same way that a nationality would be (Italian, Filipino).
Anyone who casually refers to Black people as “African-American” would probably answer “no” to this question. But I worded it that way to exclude a horde of Europeans talking about their coworkers who emigrated from Africa. Black descendents of enslaved Africans have a unique culture, and that’s who I was asking about.
Where are they from? I’ve only ever seen “black” to mean African (or descendants of enslsved Africans), South Indian, or Aborigine.
I don’t know any Americans let along African-Americans.
Omg, that NAME! BWAHAHAHA! I’m sorry. I am so sorry! I just keep imagining you waking up in the morning, sir, looking in the mirror and then in all seriousness saying to yourself… deep voice “You know what would be a really kick-ass name? Taserface!” That’s how I hear you in my head! What was your second choice? “Scrotum Hat”?
I’ve seen bad takes from you before but Jesus christ the comments ITT tops them all
