- cross-posted to:
- israelicrimes@lemm.ee
- cross-posted to:
- israelicrimes@lemm.ee
Israel could kill everyone left in Northern Gaza if its assault on the enclave continues, a United Nations relief official warned on Saturday
“Hospitals have been hit, and health workers have been detained. Shelters have been emptied and burned down. First responders have been prevented from saving people from under the rubble. Families have been separated, and men and boys are being taken away by the truckload,”
Msuya estimated that Israel’s actions in the north had killed hundreds and displaced tens of thousands. According to Al Jazeera, an Israeli siege on the north that began earlier in October has killed around 640.
“The Biden-Harris administration must stop the flow of U.S. weapons to Israel which constitutes a necessary step to halting Israel’s ongoing war crimes,” IMEU wrote on social media Saturday. “It’s time for an arms embargo now.”
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I would not be surprised if they did that - and then continued their way south. Israel is clearly out to exterminate the Palestinian people by any means possible, from outright shooting and bombing them to starving them and killing them by witholding medical services.
Both interpretations of the word “may” are applicable here.
If Israel actually completes its mission and kills every man, woman, and child in Palestine, would that make the western powers any more inclined to call it genocide?
Most probably suspect it’s genocide and know they, by not speaking out, at least support it passively. But it just doesn’t matter for their immediate or the near future, so nothing will happen. Thoughts and prayers…
I see two main culprits that enable Israel to eradicate the Palestinian people and their livelihood in manner and speed we see now. The US and germany. Many other western political elites seem far more divided on the topic but probably fear the backlash of speaking out.
70% of the weapons come from the US and they will never stop to supply their FOB. Democrats or republicans will veto everything and make it as hard as possible to even reach a clear global verdict on what happened and how to classify it.
Most of the remaining 30% come from germany.
Here the key argument is that Israel is worthy of unwavering support due to the historical fact of the holocaust and the inhumane acts inflicted on the Jewish population.
Scholz said recently that the security of Israel is a National interest of germany. As a german I feel this too, although for me the state of Israel and the global jewish population we did unspeakable crimes to are not necessarily the same. There are lines that can be crossed that limit my willingness of support. It’s not unconditional and they crossed them. Israel crossed them, not the jews.
I also feel past and present crimes the jewish people had to endure can be used to understand why Israel is acting the way it does but it can’t be a justification of their barbaric way of waging this war against Hamas.
In short, nothing will change. Sorry for the long reply, this shit really grinds my gears.
US, Germany, UK, Canada, Ireland, Italy, Spain, and many more you have to dig a bit to find the details sometimes
Huh? Ireland? How?
Most of those make sense to me as lesser culprits.
Ireland does not. Could you explain?
Should have given them a part of Germany then, instead of having the Palestinians pay for your nation’s crimes
The colonization power couldn’t say the word ceasefire. I don’t think the can say the word genocide.
They would start to “seriously consider the possibility that perhaps something was not right”
“We will have to think about scheduling a call to plan a meeting to start having talks about perhaps organising a committee which would make a recommendation as to how we should go about getting ready to write a sternly worded press release (in which we won’t criticise Israel too much).”
It took us a 100 years to officially recognize the Armenian Genocide.
They would still call it Hamas
Of course not, because they are complicit
Probably not for a few decades at least. It’s only when today’s college aged people take power that it’ll get labeled as such. And even then, it’s not a guarantee.
Long enough they can make sad movies about it.
Just think of the profit potential!
Heh. The fact we live in a world where terrible tragedies become profitable media in a few generations is a mixed bag. It’s good that people know about it, but it’s sad that it is something to profit from.
Victors may get to write history, but younger generations get to have the last word on it.
Israel has called for civilians to evacuate and has provided evacuation corridors.
Israel declaring everyone should just leave is great and everything but where is safe for them to go?
Its just, to me, the only places they seem to be able to go that might be safe are outside of Palestine but maybe I’m just being cynical.
You can’t be that naive, honestly
That defence holds about such water as a colander. There is so much evidence to the contrary that it boggles the mind. They have bombed hospitals, schools,
bomb shelters,kettled the entire population into a tiny parcel of land in the southernmost tip of the country while they finish levelling the rest of Palestine, and stopped all aid, journalists, water, and food entering the country. And then to add insult to injury they bomb the safe zones.A country’s right to defend itself does not extend to this. This isn’t defence.
Do they expect the civilians with blown off limbs in bombed-out hospitals to walk to these not-so-safe zones? How do they expect the entire population to survive in these cramped conditions with no access to critical food, water, and medicine heading into winter? (Hint: they don’t.)
Thank you for saying this.
bomb shelters
Can you provide a source for this?
In all the other cases of schools, hospitals, safe zones: these were used by combatants for military purposes. These are warcrimes in itself and make attacking these now military objectives legal under international humanitarian law.
That said. There are also war crimes committed by Israeli soldiers and careless destruction.
Hint: they don’t.
For many months we have heard claims of imminent death starvation of millions and that evacuation from Rafah would be impossible. These claims didn’t materialize.
Yes, the humanitarian situation for Gazans is dire. Why are the refugees not allowed to flee the war zone like in every other war?
Hamas and its ilk could stop this war at any time by releasing the hostages. As long as the hostages remain in captivity and rockets are fired at Israel, they have a good claim to continue the war. Hamas is ideologically convinced any number of dead Palestinians is acceptable, if Israel is damaged somewhat at least.
Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.
Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.
- Page 105
Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986. (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.')
- page 240
In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60 percent over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50 percent decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (com- bined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.
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Page 402
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The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.
The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.
- Amnesty International Report pg 26-27
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
During the current war, Hamas officials have said that the group does not want to return to ruling Gaza and that it advocates for forming a government of technocrats to be agreed upon by the various Palestinian factions. That government would then prepare for elections in Gaza and the West Bank, with the intention of forming a unified government.
Israel justifies nearly every attack on civilians with the lie of ‘human shields’
Human Shields
Hamas:
Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.
Israel:
Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:
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Including Children (2013 Report)
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Israel “Systematically” Uses Gaza Children as Human Shields, Rights Group Finds 2024
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Breaking The Silence - Testimonies from IDF Veterans
Deliberate Attacks on Civilians
Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:
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The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force
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‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
bomb shelters
can you provide a source for this
So…even if they didn’t, you’d be fine with the hospitals, schools, safe zones, etc? Just because of one fuckin flimsy ass excuse from Israel? And have you seen proof of every school, hospital, et al that’s been bombed being used by Hamas? Are you not asking for proof of that? But when the people are being fuckin slaughtered, you need proof that EVERY SINGLE FUCKIN safe haven had been leveled before you fuckin stand up for the people facing a goddamn genocide? Wheat the fuck is wrong with you
But fine.
I have heard from attacks on schools, hospitals, and safe zones. These were all used by combatants and thus legal military objectives under international humanitarian law.
I have never even heard of bomb shelters existing for civilians in Gaza.
…do you even hear yourself?
These people don’t have bomb shelters. WHERE THEY WERE TOLD BY ISRAEL TO SHELTER, THEY WERE FUCKING SLAUGHTERED. THAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM YOU GODDAMN MONSTER
Don’t engage with troll. They are either bot, or have no plan to engage in any form of discussion instead utilities your time, to read news or maybe send letter or share the news with people around you. It is more productive to stop the genocide than talking to a bot or an idiot online.
You only seem to have an emotional and not a factual understanding of the situation.
If combatants use a safe zone for military purposes, the military objectives can be attacked legally. Safe zones are for civilians, not for combatants. Combatants abusing safe zones for military purposes like launching and storing missiles are the ones violating the safe zone first and thus legitimizing attacks.
Can you provide a source for this?
For many months we have heard claims of imminent death starvation of millions and that evacuation from Rafah would be impossible. These claims didn’t materialize.
I mean, evacuation is impossible at this point isnt it? Where would they go? Back to the levelled north? Force their way into Egypt? The fact that they aren’t all dead yet doesn’t disprove that Israel’s intent is to cause it, they just haven’t finished yet.
That’s not a bomb shelter.
Force their way into Egypt
Why doesn’t Egypt open the border? Why is there no evacuation of refugees by sea?
Oh sorry, I misread the article. It turns out Israel bombed a school that was situated in a refugee camp. It was being used as a shelter, that’s much better.
But I looked into it and apparently Gaza doesn’t have bomb shelters, so it would be hard for Israel to bomb them, I suppose. Too expensive to build while embargoed and not prioritised by their government, I will strike that from my comment.
Why doesn’t Egypt open the border?
There are many reasons why they are reluctant. Do you think Egypt has the facilities to house and feed 2.2 million refugees? Does any country?
Why should Palestinians be forced to leave when Israel insist they will not allow them to return to their homeland?
Hamas managed to build hundreds of kilometers of underground tunnels and bunkers to protect combatants and military infrastructure. Civilians just aren’t allowed in there. That’s where the priorities of Gaza‘s government lie. They don’t give a shit if civilians die, if they can continue the futile attempt to destroy Israel by force of arms. Militant resistance takes precedence over building decent lives. That’s the whole reason Gaza is so fucked.
You mean the ones they bombed the following day? They followed evacuation orders. An Israeli airstrike killed them the next day.
deleted by creator
That’s been the point the entire time
The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.
Terrifying, but also completely obvious, and somehow most politicians don’t seem to be upset at the vast loss of innocent life by state terrorism.
Because to them, no lives matter. Except their own of course.
The blood of their own people is also on their hands… because the IDF and the Netanyahu government uses them as human shields; it’s a fact that they play fast and lose with Israeli lives. Remember that they had intelligence an attack was highly likely around the month of Oct… they still let that music festival continue and didn’t attempt to evacuate or even warn the kibbutz near the walls surrounding Gaza. They wanted any kind of attack to be at least marginally successful so they could justify bulldozing and occupying Gaza so that settlements could commence there.
They wanted any kind of attack to be at least marginally successful so they could justify bulldozing and occupying Gaza so that settlements could commence there.
Yes. You’re replying to someone saying Because to them, no lives matter. Except their own of course. And ‘no lives matter’ doesn’t distinguish based on nationality as listed on e.g. a passport.
It’s because their families aren’t the ones getting bombed…
“But you see, it’s not me, it’s not my, family, in your head, in your head, they are fighting, with their tanks, and their bombs, and their bombs, and their guns, in your head, they are crying.”
Water is wet, UN Official Warns.
This one of the cases where I think TruthOut misrepresented the statement, here it’s in full:
Statement on North Gaza by Joyce Msuya, Acting Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator
What Israeli forces are doing in besieged North Gaza cannot be allowed to continue.
Hospitals have been hit and health workers have been detained. Shelters have been emptied and burned down. First responders have been prevented from saving people from under the rubble. Families have been separated and men and boys are being taken away by the truckload.
Hundreds of Palestinians have reportedly been killed. Tens of thousands have been forced to flee yet again.
The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.
Such blatant disregard for basic humanity and for the laws of war must stop.
That’s being charitable. They’ve completely fabricated a statement and attributed it to Msuya. No wonder their “fact check” score is so low.
How? The title is not in quotes. The quoted statement is equivalent to the title, it simply highlights that it is Israel doing the killing. The only difference is passive vs active voice.
“The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying,” Msuya said. “Such blatant disregard for basic humanity and for the laws of war must stop."
OP, your post was great, and this comment was great. Thank you.
I don’t get it. MBFC is not credible so their opinion doesn’t matter.
The entire population in northern Gaza is at risk of dying according to a UN official. They are at risk of dying because Israel is besieging the north of Gaza, denying food and medical supplies, is bombing them in their shelters and hospitals, is arresting medical staff and killing civilians in all sorts of other cruel ways. That is, if they don’t starve to death or die while giving birth or from curable diseases or minor injuries.
They are dying because of Israel’s genocide. If you die in a genocide it’s because you’re being killed. So yeah the entire population of Gaza is at risk of being killed by Israel.
Using the premise that Israel is committing genocide you can see that it’s very easy to show that the two statements are equivalent.
Thank you for saying this.
The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.
Quibbling over this not being a damning enough statement is ridiculous.
That isn’t how journalism works. If you say someone said something, they had better have really said that thing. You can’t twist and rephrase it willy-nilly. For example, I could twist your reply to say:
“Caring about factual reporting is ridiculous”
— SamvegaThe entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.
Quibbling over this not being a damning enough statement is ridiculous. Fuck anyone who pretends this isn’t so bad.
Histrionics and distorting the truth doesn’t help the cause at all. The other side can and will point to this as manipulation of the facts and use it to discredit the actual truth.
Histrionics and distorting the truth doesn’t help the cause at all.
It’s not a distortion of the truth to read “The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying” and write a headline of “Israel May Kill Every Palestinian Left in North Gaza, UN Official Warns”. Especially when the context of ‘at risk’ is “What Israeli forces are doing…”.
If I say your whole family is ‘at risk of’ being poisoned due to contaminants in the food in your house, a headline of “whole household may be poisoned” is completely accurate.
Unless you think ‘What Israeli forces are doing… at risk of dying’ means something else?
It’s not a distortion of the truth to read “The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying” and write a headline of “Israel May Kill Every Palestinian Left in North Gaza, UN Official Warns”.
Of course it is, when you’re claiming that somebody else actually said those words. If somebody tells you “XYZ” and you write that the person said “WXY” you don’t get to put their name on it and attribute those words to them.
Absolute lowest quality journalism allowed on this website. Of course, people are happy to post it repeatedly as long as it conforms with their worldview.
Statement on North Gaza by Joyce Msuya, Acting Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator
What Israeli forces are doing in besieged North Gaza cannot be allowed to continue.
Hospitals have been hit and health workers have been detained. Shelters have been emptied and burned down. First responders have been prevented from saving people from under the rubble. Families have been separated and men and boys are being taken away by the truckload.
Hundreds of Palestinians have reportedly been killed. Tens of thousands have been forced to flee yet again.
The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.
Such blatant disregard for basic humanity and for the laws of war must stop.
Please explain how this does not warrant the headline of Israel May Kill Every Palestinian Left in North Gaza, UN Official Warns.
Truth Out is notoriously low quality journalism that routinely, distorts the facts, or misrepresents them. This article is yet another example.
Thanks for your attempt at an explanation! I grade it 2/10.
How so? The original quote says the same thing, only in the passive voice.
If the defense of a new source is, “but they barely distorted the facts,” do you really need further clarification?
Truth-Out notorious for this kind of thing.
TruthOut - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for TruthOut:
MBFC: Left - Credibility: Medium - Factual Reporting: Mixed - United States of America
Al Jazeera - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for Al Jazeera:
MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: Medium - Factual Reporting: Mixed - Qatar
