Sigh. if you’re going to be so insistent. first lets start with tossing out GDP as a metric its useless. it measures production not happiness/societal fullfillment. those two things are very different. If you want to use china as a pillar of socialist utopia… well, sorry thats not going to fly.

secondly: at least use comparable countries. comparing the USSR to the UK and on top of it using percentages. my god. did anyone teach you anything about maths?

(the problem is in what 0% represents as a baseline the higher the baseline is the less room it has to grow, and the USSR and the UK didn’t start out at the same baseline)

third: cite your sources if you want to play the numbers game.

fourth: you and I clearly have different definitions of central planning, you have a particular definition and mine is a general ‘small number of people making the calls’ both late stage capitalism and what you’re article you linked to are the same thing in all but how those individuals are selected. to me there is no difference there. they’re both equally bad ideas.

You’re foolish because you think marx had the answers to the problem of the class war. he didn’t… You’re never going to convenience people to risk dramatic upheaval. Most people are not wired that way. hence marxist ideas and in particular the revolutionary followers such as yourself dont understand human nature. The US is not at that point yet, it has to get significantly worse for such triggers to be effective.

re central planning: late stage capitalism and you’re marxist idea of public property are the same levels of centralized planning. the fact you don’t realize that is… sad. again you also don’t need such a system. it limits diversity in ideas and development. even if you take over the means of production in a capitalist economy, who says you’re going to do any better than the current crop of oligarchs? fundamentally I don’t believe you will.

also the very same weakness of capitalism you hope to exploit are the same weakness your society will have because its just as centralized. I really hope you realize this.

As for the PRC… its not even 100 years old yet; and has a fair amount of problems; primarily the fact its run by a dictator. the USSR didn’t last a 100 years. so lets just say if those are your examples for thriving socialist countries I’ll pass on your vision.

Essentially my fundamental point is you need to figure out how to build the system without centralized planning and organization and a robust immune system to bad actors; and marxist from everything i’ve seen/been shown isnt that.

how to clarify the two adjectives I used for marxism and yourself mmmm… I’ll try but these are things I usually spend months on deprogramming people like yourself.

idealistic: thinking you can just wrest away control from capitalists without broad support, which you certainly don’t have, and the naive assumption your central planners will be better than the current catch we already have. No thanks winni I’ll pass.

inflexible: soon as your centralize anything in a system you make it harder to experiment or course correct. why? because everything that depends on that centralize system needs to be changed in order to support the changes. lets take something as simple as deciding to build a park. if public spaces are centrally planned then who decides what kind of park it is? me? my neighbor? my town? my state? what about what gets researched? who gets the supplies to do their research? what if the individual doing the resource allocation is corrupt or doesn’t understand the new ideas? what if they find a particular approach like fetal stem cells objectionable?

and the personal attack is because you’re as inflexible as marx was in his thinking you think he had the answers and you rely on him as an authority and puritan authority. sorry but appeals to authority don’t matter to me. You shouldn’t need to appeal to marxism to demonstrate the validity of your ideas. tell me what particular bits you plan on changing and how. the good thing about living in a democracy is you can effect these things at a local level. the PSL is doomed from the start because it doesn’t understand the problems or the people its trying to convince and as a result it doesn’t understand how to manipulate systems and there isn’t wide spread repression (yet) to get people angry enough to be supportive.

Now I’ve spent enough time corresponding with you and I’m going back to fiddling with my mushrooms they’re far more interesting than talking to a soldier tripping over their own firearm in their enthusiasm. but I suggest you research into using random processes and their effects on creating robust systems, there are examples in compute science, biology, law, governance, maybe it’ll enlighten you the the power of distributed systems over centralized. 👋

because I dont give a shit about marxist. its mostly nonsense. he identified the root problem but failed to understand human nature or how to build robust economies/systems. just because you’re blinded doesn’t mean every socialist is as foolish. centralized planning is what we have today in late stage capitalism, and its what caused communist societies to collapse under the corruption they foster. like i said good luck in your idealistic vision it’ll never work because its inflexible and misses the point.

edit: now i was a little terse there sorry. anyways I dont need you to give me an expose on marxism. its strictly unnecessary. is where the PSL is claiming to require a planned economy. which is a bad idea and thats what I was reacting to; its what we have today and its ripe for corruption. any socialist movement is going to have to learn to reject centralized structures beyond a certain size.

if the goal is to prevent wealth accumulation/ensure the needs of the workers are met, there are other methods to do so that dont require a planned economy.

now I suggest you go spend your efforts on another individual, theres no more play here for you. but again I recommend PSL spend its effort on state level efforts and show their model can work. there is some okayish ideas there they just need to prove them first but there is also a lot of things we already have available.

quick scan looks like a non-starter for me but good luck! anything where economy is centrally managed is a horrible idea, and something marx got very wrong its essentially what we have now just with a different person in charge. 🤷

she has until the end of the week to earn my vote. 🤞 ;)

you’re welcome to link to resources. I checked out her campaign site it wasn’t interesting and i explained why each point will fail. I dont particularly care to spend my time beyond that digging to decide if she was is worth my time, determined she isn’t. The campaign site is incoherent as far as plans go. if you want to goal post shift to PSL in general feel free to do so and i’ll tell you what i think but otherwise. 🤷 if you want support you need to do the effort to earn it. ;)

She isn’t doing destruction for destruction’s sake.

absolutely is unless there is a plan to replace the system. hence all of my original points around her lack of coherent plans that address actual needs of the people. breaking the current system without sound ideas on how the new system will operate is destruction for destruction sake. You don’t tear your house down without a alternative place to shelter. but keep waving your flag on the hill, I’lll bring you a picnic basket and chill with you. =)

You have yet to explain any of this.

I dont need to, those are my opinions you can take or leave them as you will. or just watch the election play out and get your answer. =)

You’re attempting to make a distinction that is immaterial to the end result, as your own article admits. like i said shes more than welcome to run, she just won’t get any support which is what she needs. destruction for destruction sake doesn’t work, nor does it ensure the end result.

like I said, I suspect Claudia has a back bone, what revolutionary doesn’t? she is just doomed to failure because she doesn’t know how to conduct a revolution and will be unable to gain support because she refused to find levers to pull and instead just swings a hammer, because shes hurt and angry. If thats your jam by all means vote for her, but be aware ignoring the facts i just presented makes you just as blind as harris is. :)

media is just an amplifier. but yes you could make such an argument; though its deeper than that.

incorrect, Im a socialist. she just doesn’t know how to be effective at getting the change we all desire; and I doubt she’ll be good as a president. shes hurt and angry and lashing out. she should run locally for a governor position and prove she knows how to develop and build worker run cooperatives before trying her hand at the national stage.

the first step is following khan by breaking non-competes, then provide support and resources for worker run organizations.

you’re upset I deconstructed your entire position in a couple of paragraphs and think burying your head in the sand will resolve the obvious problems with your positions. (hint: they won’t)

learn how to influence your politicians. voting for them when they dont support your interests doesn’t work. being afraid of their opposition doesn’t work. What have you done to fix FPTP voting issues? What have you done to prevent genocides?

I only quoted a single sentence you’re entire post was predicated on it. you’re the only moron because you lack contextual awareness; unlike the Palestinians in swing states. Good on them and I wish them the best of luck, I’m rooting for them and emailing my congress critters so they know that harris doesnt have my support is she continues her israel non-sense and issues with khan.

edit: seems like the pressure is working now harris just needs to come out and say she’ll continue the enforcement of leahy and a cessation of hostilities. keep up the good work people few days left.

Yes, and most of her funding is coming from known individuals who want exactly the opposite of what I want (khan, healthcare reform, decriminalization). trust is not a commodity to freely give to politicians and she sure as hell hasnt earned it historically or through a primary.

literally every single one she listed… she’s certainly not a unifying figure that socialism needs. she isnt dog whistling shes full throat fog horning and poorly.

The 100 largest corporations in America should be seized from their billionaire owners and turned into public property.

good luck. that’ll take years and won’t fly for a lot of people. nor will it fix the problem. all its doing is triggering an immediate immune response from the unthinking masses. Nor does it address daily issues working american’s are experiencing. I understand what shes going for, but she doesn’t know how to accomplish it effectively.

Overthrow the Dictatorship of the Rich — Build a Democracy That Serves the Working Class

sigh… same problem as above. removing the FBI and NSA will have little to no material impact on working americans.

End the Rule of Money and Lock Up the Corrupt Elite

yeah okay. again get what shes going for but non of that can be accomplished without a supportive congress. What to over throw the system? great I’m right there with you. but have an actual workable plan.

End All U.S. Aid to Apartheid Israel. End the Genocide and Free Palestine & Cut the Military Budget by 90% — Peace, Not War with China & Russia!

sigh. so completely cripple our economy, and trade one relatively friendly genocidal country for two unfriendly genocidal countries. sounds like a great plan.

End the war on black america.

sigh reparations, i get it i really do. but its just another aspect of the race war and sadly black americans are not yet populous enough to pull it off. could just as easily have said ‘build a social safety net to support working americans’

Defend Women’s rights, full equality for lgbtq people

again great cause, but lacks the acume to identify the levers to pull to make it a reality.

Save the planet from capitalism

sigh. again just isolating herself from many american’s who believe in capitalism.

na, it just demonstrates the yours/the artists inability to act independently from a group. what have you done to change the voting system? probably nothing. so take your nonsense elsewhere.

yawn absolutely false. You have other options. you’re just too afraid to exercise them. That’s a you issue, you are willing to put up with harris/biden committing genocide and breaking strikes because you’re scared of trump. I’m not. and yes, I’m aware of the mathematics behind FTFP. sadly fortunately they dont apply in my state.

1. write to your congress critters telling them to support weapon bans and to push harris. I’ve done this have you?
2. ensure your local government is well populated with non-maga’s. I’ve done this have you?

You’re controlled by fear. I’m not. My state is well insulated from trump and SCOTUS. If democrats and harris want to win they need to enforce the leahy act at a minimum. If harris wants to be the law and order candidate then she needs to move on these issues. she won’t sadly but thats a her problem, not a me problem.

You also clearly dont understand ‘both sides’ critique. there are clear differences between the candidates. harris is clearly superior. she just isn’t superior enough to overlook committing genocide and breaking strikes. for you she clearly is. that is a you issue.

Incorrect. she has said plenty on gaza. for example she has said she’ll remain committed to supporting israel’s war, that they have a right to our weapons and support. shes remained uncommitted on khan and other policy issues. I dont see why I should support a candidate with such a questionable moral compass and a well known history for prosecuting weed crimes and being a corporate bootlicker. 🤷 but again your vote is your vote. just don’t bitch about your candidate losing when she can’t even clear a basic human decency bar of fucking not enabling genocide.

its because their corporate owners don’t want to have to implement left wing economic policies for the good of the nation. unfortunately we’ll continue to have fascist bogey men until people start holding dems accountable.

na you just dont know how to relax and have a good time in an environment you don’t enjoy. clearly trump does. the guy is a danger to the country but this isn’t a thing we need to waste our time on, just makes you look like a incredibly maladjusted person.

The dude sucks at dancing like most maladjusted white men. i dont see an issue here out side of his rampant racism and fascism. we can do better.

Honestly? I’d be more likely to attend a political rally if they had more dancing and less pomp.

he was probably just on shrooms/molly or something similar. the guy is a menace but seriously? knocking a person for vibing out to music because they’re sick of the campaign trail? honestly i wish he just did that all the time and left everyone else alone with his racist/facist non-sense.

Thankfully you can write whatever name you wish in that box. feel free to exercise your right to remain uncommitted.