• wjrii@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    So this claim seems well sourced, but I had to look it up because my bullshit detector always perks up when Sparta is discussed.

    The surviving written sources are limited and largely from a non-Spartan viewpoint. Anton Powell wrote that to say the written sources are “‘not without problems’… as an understatement would be hard to beat”.

    By Roman times, when a more organized and centralized polity was creating a pan-Mediterranean culture that had a lot to do with which works ended up preserved, Sparta was pretty much a theme park shell of its former self, and its former self is probably not so amazing anyway. In particular, their unusually thorough and unbalanced slave economy is overlooked when lionizing them, and their military record is rather underwhelming, possibly due to the incredible inefficiencies, even by ancient Greek standards, of said slave economy.

    • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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      2 months ago

      They really do get a lot more reverence today than they deserve. Like, I get most historical cultures don’t stack up the best with modern moral standards applied to them, but like, based on what I understand about Sparta, if the place were somehow transplanted through history to the modern day as it’s own country, it would probably end up some sanctioned pariah state out of sheer disgust for how it treats it’s own citizenry and handles it’s foreign diplomacy.

      • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        A highly militaristic society that isn’t all that strong compared to other militaries, that treats it’s people and outsiders poorly, and has glaringly obvious issues with its governance, all with an air of superiority and an emphasis on never appearing weak?

        …Was Sparta just North Korea?

        • ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Thought you were gonna say Russia n.g.l. (based on what’s been seen in the recent military special operation)

          • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.com
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            2 months ago

            The fact that folks vote you down without engaging speaks volumes. The npc angry meme comes to mind.

            From an outside perspective the US definitely ticks those boxes. Maybe someone can explain what doesnt.

            • Demdaru@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Nobody wants to feed the troll, simple. But eh.

              • Highly militaristic Check
              • Isn’t that strong Eh, just beating every other contestant with either tech, experience or both.
              • Treats it’s people and outsider poorly MMMMM, okay, for EU standards yeah, but for global ones? They’re mid.
              • Obvious problems with governance . . . nnnnnyeaah…
              • Air of superiority Yeah. Except not really. Ya all are dropping it more and more as time goes.
              • Never appearing weak It’s justified tho.

              So overall, yeah, 3,5/6. 0,5 for treating people part. Defo not sparta…i mean, if they vote Trump and I’ll have to update this but eh.

          • luciferofastora@lemmy.zip
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            2 months ago

            The USA doesn’t have a slave caste making up 80% of its population that it ritually declares war on every year. They aren’t quite as bad as Sparta.

            Yet.

      • Snowclone@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        300 is entirely fantasy, the motivation of the story is that Sparta had a long important holiday that always landed on the same predictable days, and if anyone attacked their allies the attack was going to be at the start of that long holiday so that one army didn’t show up, and they missed out on some very important battles, so at some point when this happened again, they sent out 300 men to do something for the war effort, and holding a bottle neck while a storm wiped out most of the threat was heavily publicized to counter the ‘fucking Spartans and their several days long fucking holiday that isn’t even on a lunar cycle so everyone fucking know exactly when it happens never Zesu bolted ass showing up with their little skirts and manly open mouth kissing army’ kind of sentiment.

          • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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            2 months ago

            Ha, yeah, I get it. “lol they gay” is usually a joke. In this case it is not, as you mentioned:

            In Sparta […] the cropping of the bride’s hair and transvestism likely aimed to transform her temporarily into an adolescent Spartan boy – a less threatening figure to the groom, who probably had made his own transition to adulthood via a close emotional and sexual relationship with an older male

            It is just what was up

                • VelvetStorm@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Super gross. I always heard the joke of Ancient Greece being very pedophilic but didn’t know it was true. Super duper gross. Thanks for the info, though.

  • t�m@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    Either tomboy culture was steering or that they weren’t used to being with women