WASHINGTON (TND) — Dr.Jill Stein, who is a Green Party presidential candidate, has selected Professor Butch Ware as her vice-presidential running mate.

  • Dkarma@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    How does she get to 270?

    Can’t?

    Oh then she’s a spoiler for trump to win then.

    Simple as

    • davel@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      How many votes do you think she’s likely to get in swing states, which are the only states that matter? Enough to spoil Harris? She’s not even on the ballot in Georgia. The point of Stein’s campaign is not to win or to be a spoiler. The point is messaging and putting pressure the Democratic party to move further left.

    • K1nsey6@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      The Liberal myth of spoiler implies that if there were no 3rd party candidates, we would vote for your neoliberal POS candidates, surprise, we would not.

      • Rekhyt@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Spoilers are mathematical fact stemming from first past the post voting. I also want to be able to vote for a third party candidate but it goes against my interests to do so until the voting system changes.

        The only way a spoiler is a myth if you weren’t going to vote at all.

    • Socialist Mormon Satanist@lemmy.worldOP
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      3 months ago

      Oh then she’s a spoiler for trump to win then.

      Then maybe get a stronger Democrat candidate so you don’t have to worry about that person losing votes a third party.

      Simple as

      • lennybird@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Could be the best Democratic candidate of all time and that would still happen. It’s silly.

        If you want to do something productive and not shoot yourself in the foot, spend your time advocating for the abolition of FPTP and an alternative ranked voting system.

        • Socialist Mormon Satanist@lemmy.worldOP
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          3 months ago

          Could be the best Democratic candidate of all time and that would still happen. It’s silly.

          Well, I think we should end the 2-party system, so not an issue for me.

        • Socialist Mormon Satanist@lemmy.worldOP
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          3 months ago

          I don’t care about a spoiler effect. At all.

          I don’t vote “against” who I’m afraid of winning. I vote “for” who I’d like to win. Not based on odds. Or fear.

          If a party is concerned, then they should get a more popular candidate.

          • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            I don’t care if you don’t care.

            If a party is concerned, then they should get a more popular candidate.

            The spoiler effect is position based, not popularity based.

            • Socialist Mormon Satanist@lemmy.worldOP
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              3 months ago

              The “spoiler” effect argument assumes votes belong to the two major parties, but in reality, votes are earned by candidates who align with voters’ values.

              Supporting a third party challenges the status quo, pushing major parties to address issues they might otherwise ignore, and reflects the true diversity of voter priorities.

              So no, I don’t care. And for someone who doesn’t care that I don’t care, you seem to be pushing it really hard. I’m not voting for your candidate. And I won’t stop posting articles to this community. Accept it.

              • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                The “spoiler” effect argument assumes votes belong to the two major parties, but in reality, votes are earned by candidates who align with voters’ values.

                No, it doesn’t. The spoiler effect is about how the introduction of new candidates can change the outcome of an election, such that a previous winner loses because of the proximity of another candidate. Here is an example of it:

                Total voters: 765
                The winner was favorable to 56% of voters
                lachlan - 427
                emma - 338
                

                Total voters: 765
                The winner was favorable to 44% of voters
                emma - 338
                lachlan - 312
                omalley - 115
                

                pushing major parties to address issues they might otherwise ignore

                But that never happens. The two main parties always ignore everybody except for what their establishment wants for the most part. The DNC didn’t learn from it’s lesson in 2016, it’s not going to learn from it’s lesson in 2024. And the RNC is obviously even worse at learning lessons.

                And for someone who doesn’t care that I don’t care, you seem to be pushing it really hard.

                You’re not the one I am trying to convince here.

                I’m not voting for your candidate. And I won’t stop posting articles to this community. Accept it.

                I do not care. I’m only here to disprove you wrong about your claims about the spoiler effect. You are wrong both on a mathematical level and a practical level.

                  • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    I actually wrote a python program just to make this graph. I found myself arguing with spoiler effect deniers way too often. It is incredibly easy to show this effect happening now. And I can run it as many times as I like with random colors, candidate names, etc.

                    It is super neat.

                • Cyrus Draegur@lemm.ee
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                  3 months ago

                  Indeed the only thing the Democrat party learned on 2016 was that “Trump won so that is a winning strategy and I would do better if I were more like that”.

                  Because NEWS FLASH, PEOPLE: Political Parties are not rational actors! They are FERAL. They CONSUME people, but the parties themselves are fundamentally not human. They do not have empathy, they do not have a conscience, and they BARELY even have object permanence!

                  People need to realize that as long as we’re stuck in a First Past The Post model, what voting constitutes is NOT “supporting the lesser of two evils” but RATHER “punishing the greater of two evils”.

                  The party that LOSES defines “what not to do”.

                  Honestly for FUCKS sake the Republican party should have fucking DIED decades ago. The only reason Richard fucking Nixon won and got to deploy his cancerous Southern Strategy was because Wallace distracted the voters who SHOULD have been focused on KILLING THE GOP.

                  We were almost free of the fascist anti-civil-rights pro-slavery SCUM.

                  And you know what wouldn’ve happened? The Democrat party would have SPLIT. Because in First Past the Post there are always TWO viable parties. The split, as it always is, would have been along the pro-tradition/anti-authority line, and we would’ve had a centrist party and a progressive party instead of the centrist party and fucking dictator cult we have today. God fucking DAMMIT.

                  • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    If it is at all helpful, you’re not alone in your anger towards the system. You’re 100% correct. This is shit we should have move on from 50 years ago.

                • Socialist Mormon Satanist@lemmy.worldOP
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                  3 months ago

                  And you and I have already talked about this. We’re done talking about it. I don’t believe in it, and that’s my opinion. You are free to feel the way you want. So you have proven nothing to me.

                  And if you continue this conversation with me, I will block you. Again.

                  • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    I don’t believe in it, and that’s my opinion

                    It’s also some people’s opinion that the moon landing was faked. Not all opinions are of equal merit. And yours in particular when it comes to the spoiler effect flies in the face of the evidence. That evidence being the evidence I literally just showed you.

                    The math shows it’s true. You can bury your head in the sand if you like, but you can’t make the rest of us join you. Accept it.

                    And if you continue this conversation with me, I will block you. Again.

                    Go for it. If you can’t handle honest critical thought, that’s on you.