More context:
- Be an advanced, developed nation
- Maintain the death penalty
Pick one.
- Be an advanced, developed nation
The south is not remotely an advanced, developed nation.
It’s like if you took Brussels, then glued the worst bits of Somalia to it.
We had to fight a war to get them to stop keeping black people as pets, and they just kept doing it anyway.
Hitler wrote of the south specifically as an inspiration for German genetic policies (Jim Crow) in Mein Kampf. Black GIs came home from killing nazis to be lynched from trees.
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- The US federal government has the authority to, at any time, outlaw state-sanctioned murder across the country
eithervia Supreme Court rulingor via constitutional amendmentand tell states to kick rocks. It chooses not to do this.I don’t care that an amendment is “hard”;if it’s possible to do but it fails to do this, then it’s the federal government’s fault. The votes ofabout 355 legislators and the signature of Joe Biden5 SCOTUS justices could end this today; it’s the stroke of a pen, and they simply don’t do it. - This case went before the SCOTUS requesting an emergency block, where it was voted against 6–3. The SCOTUS had the power to trivially prevent this and decided not to.
- The majority of US states (27) as well as the federal government have state-sanctioned murder on the books as a legal criminal punishment. 12 states and the federal government have carried it out in the last 10 years.
- This is incidental to your overall point, but the current US population is ~337 million; “almost” 400 million is doing so much lifting there.
Edit: I accidentally became so sleep-deprived that I forgot a constitutional amendment has a separate proposal and ratification process. The SCOTUS method would 100% work, though, and it hasn’t yet been banned at the federal level which is a simple majority of Congress and a presidential signature, so they do overall endorse it.
You think the federal government can, with enough votes, create a Constitutional amendment? Back to government class with you:
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artV-1/ALDE_00000507/
Ah, yep, I was too sleep-deprived to remember that proposal and ratification are separate processes. Still objectively represents a failure of the United States that they can’t push this through. And of course that Congress could actually at any time ban it at the federal level with just a majority vote and haven’t done so. Or that the SCOTUS could actually ban it unilaterally. Or that even just a successfully proposed constitutional amendment would represent taking a stand against it, but they haven’t even done that.
Roe v. Wade worked, until it didn’t. Legalizing something via SCOTUS has lately proven to be as permanent as the political views of a majority of the justices on that bench.
The only correct way to fix this problem is via a Constitutional amendment, and that’s never going to happen because Republicans have rage boners for state-sponsored killing, or in this case, murder.
The votes of about 355 legislators and the signature of Joe Biden could end this today; it’s the stroke of a pen, and they simply don’t do it.
And 269 of those legislators are Republicans, most of which are uncaring sociopathic individuals who were voted in by a party of spiteful, hateful, racist voters.
The best way to change that situation is to vote. Don’t bitch about it. Vote.
This case went before the SCOTUS requesting an emergency block, where it was voted against 6–3. The SCOTUS had the power to trivially prevent this and decided not to.
Wow… 6-3, I wonder where I’ve heard that split before? Oh, right, it’s the same SCOTUS split that has been going on ever since Trump put three immoral and corruptible judges unto the Supreme Court, voted in by Republicans in the Senate, who were in turn, voted in by Republicans.
The best way to change that situation is to vote. Don’t bitch about it. Vote.
The majority of US states (27) as well as the federal government have state-sanctioned murder on the books as a legal criminal punishment. 12 states and the federal government have carried it out in the last 10 years.
And most of those states are red states… you know, the states filled to the brim with Republicans.
Are you starting to see a pattern here?
And 269 of those legislators are Republicans
I 100% agree with you that they’re vermin. My point is that they nonetheless are members of the federal government which could otherwise ban this.
Don’t bitch about it. Vote.
I’m quite content to do both actually, thank you very much.
I wonder where I’ve heard that split before?
Yes, and I’ve mentioned that split elsewhere in this thread; doesn’t mean that these traitorous fucks don’t have control over the entire US through essentially unchecked authority and that that is – say it with me – inherently the fault of the United States.
Most of those states are red states.
Nobody’s disputing that. See the first portion of this response.
I think you think what I’m saying is some kind of weird both-sidesism (it’s not; the world would be a markedly better place if every Republican were replaced by a Democrat counterpart), but the fact is that a ban on capital punishment can’t happen because the US is backward enough to have too many of these Republicans representing it.
Why will voting change it? Democrats had majorities before and didn’t do squat
It’s not about voting for Obama that one time in 2008, and crying that he didn’t single-handedly fix all of your problems with his powers as a king.
Well don’t worry, I haven’t voted since
And this is why you fail, and you fail the rest of us.
- The US federal government has the authority to, at any time, outlaw state-sanctioned murder across the country
Is the death penalty illegal at the federal level?
No, it is not, and it was carried out under Trump.
No.
Death > imprisonment
You can’t suffer while dead, and you certainly can’t be a prison pimped slave worker while dead. There’s also no way to profit from an execution so far as I can tell.
Some people need to be gotten rid of instead of being made to suffer on my dime. This is especially true depending on your views on free will. It’s triple true when you consider how much crime is just a result of unnatural financial pressures that none of us evolved to deal with.
That is frankly a disgusting point of view. Death and non-rehabilitory imprisonment are both wrong but not because it “costs money”.
This is clearly from an incredibly privileged person, because if you understood how minoritized people are treated by the legal system you wouldn’t be arguing for more executions.
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I’d rather be dead
hey cool, then you can request the judge for the death penalty instead of life (people have done that before). But you don’t get to make that decision for other people. And to do it over your tax money? (which by the way, is a fraction that your employer steals from the value you produce for them every day)? it’s a misanthropic and myopic selfish callousness; whether or not you have struggled it is a sign of insularity to ascribe your experiences to others and how it “should be”, and to do it in such a transactional way is even more disturbing.
I’d like to know how much you can cope with…
unclench your jaw and breathe friend, this is unreasonable
I can see that you haven’t been through pain and helplessness at the whim of government, and that’s how you think death is worse. Looks like you also believe they give us options and rights the way they tell you in school.
There are fates worse than death, you’re right. But I think you would be one of the few who would prefer it to prison as it currently exists. But I think a sub point you have made is that prison is tantamount to torture, and I in some ways agree with that, which is why I say that non-rehabilitory prisons are unethical. It’s also the model in the entire US.
Trapping people is evil.
You completely ignored the most important part to continue harping on your personal qualms.
hey cool, then you can request the judge for the death penalty instead of life (people have done that before). But you don’t get to make that decision for other people.
That is a perfectly reasonable compromise. I too feel that life imprisonment is worse than death, but most people being wrongfully executed do not. You can acknowledge the superior solution then continue on your personal experience.
I can see that you haven’t been through pain and helplessness at the whim of government, and that’s how you think death is worse.
Not to diminish your experience, but Marcellus Williams went through far, far more than you have. He disagreed. So since you haven’t been through pain and helplessness at the whim of government as he had, is your opinion worth nothing next to his?
Of course not. Everyone can have an opinion on the death sentence. I’m sorry for what happened to you, but it doesn’t automatically make you right.
I directly addressed that first point, so I’m gonna leave that one alone. You also think it’s like they tell you in school and news.
And the huge list of people executed by the state despite it being reasonably likely they’re actually innocent is… cheaper (it’s not), and therefore acceptable?
Absolutely not. I’ve been bullied into a false conviction myself. The reason why is that they absolutely do not give a single fuck about the people they’re ruining. Even the slightest bit of interest in being right from the court system and police would be a massive improvement for everyone. If suggest training if the problem was stupidity, but it’s malice. They know what the fuck they’re doing.
Which is why you… support the death penalty? Am I misunderstanding something here?
I’m just putting it above imprisonment. I think that if you believe someone needs punished so badly, you should have the conviction to kill them because otherwise you’re just making things worse for everyone. The issue at hand is that nobody has conviction anymore. What they have is blind rage and not enough time or resources to figure out where to put that because we’re all kept busy by the people farming us and controlling the story. Things like petty theft wouldn’t matter if our economic value weren’t skimmed by employers so ridiculously.
There’s also no way to profit from an execution so far as I can tell.
there absolutely is, with legal injections whoever sells them makes money, you save money as a prison by not having to house these people, and while you can’t exploit them for labor, there is never really a guarantee that you can. It’s a little more nuanced than this, for example solitary confinement generally makes it pretty hard to make money off of people. Death row is often a multi year process, taking many many thousands of dollars of human upkeep to keep it going.
technically you could go a step futher and say there’s a broader economic benefit to killing them as you can use it as some sort of social driving pressure. Stalinist USSR for example.
Reading about it I am not completly convinced that he is innocent, but I think that there is 100% plausible reason to doubt that he is guilty. This should defintly be enough to stop an execution.
Edit: Maybe read the whole statement before getting a rage fit? I said he shouldn’t have been killed. I am also not moderate and (according to US standards) I am apparently not white as a muslim turkish person.
It doesn’t matter if he did it or not, honestly. If the state can’t be 10000% certain the person they are about to murder is guilty of a heinous crime then it shouldn’t be possible to fucking murder them.
This isnt about innocence. This is about the state denying this Black Muslim man due process and constitutional protections.
And on that note, its impossible to prove guilt in these cases, which is why the death penalty needs to be abolished. Are you comfortable with the idea of bring executed for a crime because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Because I’m sure fucking not.
Maybe you should have read my whole statement before writing this wall of text?
I’m agreeing with your conclusion but not with your reasoning.
You reason that since it looks like he might be innocent, he shouldn’t have been executed. Extrapolating from this yields that you also believe that if you felt he was definitely guilty, he should have been executed.
I’m saying that because this uncertainty exists at all as a concept the death penalty should be abolished. Its impossible to prove someone’s guilt 100% in these cases, therefore the death penalty is immoral. Not just in this case but in every case.
I am just arguing about his case within the local law. Not about the sanity of the local within moral boundaries. So we two are having two different arguments here.
they’re agreeing with you and taking it further, i’m pretty sure
I’m convinced he is innocent. If he was not they would have evidence instead of paid testimonies against him.
That’s fine with a sentence of a couple years. But for how hard we’ve seen it become to commute a sentence, we need to be 100% sure for the death penalty.
I basically said that it is not okay, maybe you should have read the second sentence as well. But even with a “sentence of a couple years”, guilt has to be profen, not innocence. If there is plausible doubt of guilt, there shouldn’t be a guilty sentence.
Yeah, sorry it’s just worded weirdly and I didn’t get that you were referencing the reasonable doubt standard.
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Is “almost” anywhere in your definition of conviction? If so, you lack conviction.
Call me radical, but I don’t think any government should be killing people.
There are a lot of governments in the world that agree with you. Not the US government, not at all.
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Do you think prisons are okay and killing isn’t?
If the prisons are focused on rehabilitation and reintegration instead of just keeping people locked up and treating them like they’re not human? Yes. Do I believe prisons in the US are like that? No.
Genuine question. What do you think should happen with people that have committed violent crimes? If they have no interest in voluntary rehabilitation, imprisonment with the goal of rehabilitation seems to be a better alternative to just letting them roam freely and do as they please. And it seems a lot better than the death penalty. Specifically for reasons like what we’re seeing here. You can release someone from prison if evidence comes later that casts doubt on their guilt. It doesn’t prevent the harm that has already been caused, but it gives them an opportunity to take back their life. You can’t un-execute somebody.
Life is short. Why does anyone have to live after it’s over?
For the record, the super majority of pro-life Christian, patriotic judges in SCOTUS voted against stopping this on a 6-3 ruling.
Southern Christian.
Pro-life, but love guns and executing people while hating access to Healthcare for the poor.
Southern Christian love is the darkest kind of hate.
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This kind of thing makes me go into denial. I hate my country, but this absolutely cannot be real. It’s horrible clickbait, or propaganda supporting my existing beliefs about how inhumane it is here.
I struggle to imagine someone administering a needle for an innocent man to die, rather than quitting on the spot. I struggle to imagine someone certifying paperwork to appove this to happen. But I am entirely incapable of imagining the number of human cogs that would need to be similarly compliant for this to be followed through to completion. I am not interested in trying to imagine. This story is fiction because admitting otherwise will break what’s left of my sanity.
You can show me horrors and get me to admit and speak of them as reality, but you can’t get me to believe them.
A stunning number of people in the links of that chain could’ve stopped it, and none of them cared to risk their employment over it.
I’ve seen it said that if you live in the US, you can ask yourself a question: “If you lived in Nazi Germany, what would you have done to oppose that state?”
The answer: You’re doing it right now. Nazi Germany’s leaders explicitly stated that its model of colonialism and expansionism in eastern europe, eugenics practices, and its racial state, were all based on the US model, which nearly successfully carried out everything Nazi Germany failed to do: eviction and genocide of its indigenous inhabitants, stealing a continent, and erecting a white-supremacist state on top of it.
The Innocence project is real and they do incredible work. They rarely take cases that don’t have new DNA evidence due to the difficulty in overturning a conviction. They could probably use your financial support.
–The site which we don’t speak of had a mainstream news article to this story monday night explaining that the state was already refusing to grant a stay of execution even with prosecuting attornies new doubts.
I’ve come to realize that a significant portion of people just think other people should die and that’s fair and they’re OK with being the ones to do it.
I saw an Instagram reel the other day of someone in the military describing the best way to decide who to kill and who not to as you storm a civilian building, plus the latest Behind the Bastards about Yarvin’s affect on JD Vance and their belief that violence / killing and enforced poverty / slavery is not only a necessary but desirable method of governmental change - not as a reaction to oppression but as administrative.
someone in the military describing the best way to decide who to kill
Read a book by a Navy SEAL who was in Afghanistan. He said if they were wearing black Reeboks they were fighters, shoot to kill on sight.
I’m betting he was right! But Jesus, using that as a hard criteria to execute someone?!
I’ve come to realize that a significant portion of people just think other people should die and that’s fair and they’re OK with being the ones to do it.
It has always been this way. Particularly because there are people and groups who actively materially benefit from the enforced poverty/slavery and oppression of other people and groups within the social organization of our societies. The enforced poverty/slavery will never stop without sufficient and sufficiently organized, centralized, disciplined violence to overcome those who actively benefit from the enforced poverty/slavery by means of the same; and then maintaining that authority over the exploiters until their interest and strength are no more.
It’s the same reason why there’s never been a “peaceful bloodless decolonization.” Why would the colonizer ever willingly permit that? They would be, from a standpoint of their own material interest as a societal class, complete morons to do so and make such a willing choice. Which is why (and this is historically borne out) they must be not given a choice by an organized militant anti-colonial resistance. This is also why the “authoritarianism” criticism of the doctrine and practice of revolutionary groups like Castro’s revolutionaries or Lenin’s Bolsheviks is laughable; the liberal peanut gallery can only have that criticism because they succeeded and survived to be criticized; having overcome the oppressors who, in the event of the revolutionaries’ failure (historically borne out in how every failed revolution played out including the previous ones in those countries); would show the truth of themselves as 1000x more vicious, having honed that capability for 100x longer.
Look up any countries’ “Red Terror” in history, then look up their corresponding “White Terror.” You will see [wiki:NSFW images if you click on them]. Or read about any decolonization struggle. Like in Algeria, where every uprising that killed 10 Frenchmen resulted in a colonial reprisal with hundreds of butchered Algerians.
We live in a material reality with material interests which are enforced by people who will use your pacifism as a means to exploit you easier, and kill you easier if you even are seen as inconvenient or ‘in the way’ of those interests, let alone if you resist and struggle against them. And that argument has been happening since Marx and Engels’ time in the framework of materialism; and was exactly the realm of rationale behind the policy of terror with the Jacobins before that in the French Revolution; from which many later revolutionaries took lessons and learned from the mistakes and refined within their contemporary material conditions and circumstances.
This is not justice
The US government is horrible to people living within it and outside of it
Misleading title, this was a Missouri State case, not a federal one.
That being said, there are way too many innocent people getting killed for crimes they did not commit.
The only purpose of the death penalty is revenge. It has no place in a modern society.
Both the death penalty, and a system of slave labor camps, are allowed at the federal level:
- The US currently operates a system of slave labor camps, including at least 54 prison farms involved in agricultural slave labor. Outside of agricultural slavery, Federal Prison Industries operates a multi-billion dollar industry with ~ 52 prison factories , where prisoners produce furniture, clothing, circuit boards, products for the military, computer aided design services, call center support for private companies. 1, 2, 3
How is this a misleading title? On the one hand, yes, the fed can carry out state-sanctioned murder too (and it’s something Trump resumed), but 1) it’s absolutely the case that the “death penalty” should and could be banned nation-wide but isn’t, and 2) this went before the SCOTUS for an emergency block, but it was voted 6–3 not to block (I’m guessing you know that all of the six were the treasonous fuckwits nominated by Republicans and all three were sensible jurists nominated by Democrats).
What happened here is absolutely still the fault of the federal government. Of course I still agree with the rest of your comment. I just mean to say that even if you somehow totally divorce a US state from the US itself, it’s still the US’ fault.
But officer, I didn’t punch him! My fist did!
I did not hit her I did Naaaaaht! Ohimark!
Freedom!! He is free of the prison industrial complex and had to pay withhold life…
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So the Missouri regime.
Remind me of a one-off line from a kids show, involving Tom Sawyer; “I ain’t going back, it’s Missouri in there!”
The last thing I will say on this topic is that the US is divided on abortion rights. Only 14 states have total abortion bans since Roe vs Wade was overturned and I doubt anyone here would be foolish enough to claim that those states speak for the entire population of the US. Yet when it comes to the execution by the state of Missouri of a black man, suddenly, that lone state speaks for an entire population of 330 million people.
suddenly, that lone state speaks for an entire population of 330 million people.
When someone calls a government a “regime” they’re usually implying that the government doesn’t accurately reflect the will of the people.
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Just casually blaming a victim of lynching for being lynched. I bet you’re the type that peddled the George Floyd overdose conspiracy too. 🙄
I’m only posting some context from Wikipedia, I didn’t make a comment in either direction
Wikipedia is not a source. Literally anyone can edit it to say anything at any time.
That’s not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s suspicion at best.
Missouri speaks for the entire US now?
The US can be judged by the actions of any single state. It’s all the same country 🙄
Like a book can be judged by its cover cause its all the same book?
Like a book can be judged by one of it’s 50 chapters.
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Do you need someone to explain how stupid this is, or have you calmed down since you reacted?
The fact that the US federal government has the power to outlaw this but doesn’t, that this specific execution was brought before the Supreme Court and they voted against blocking it 6–3, and the fact that the majority of US states (27) and the federal government have this on the books speak for the US now, yes.
Taken to an absurd extreme, let’s imagine that the US federal government and 27 of its states explicitly had statutes on the books stating “you can legally rape puppies”, and you stepping in and saying “Well that doesn’t speak for the entire US! Stop trying to make it sound like everyone condones puppy rape just because Missouri allows it!” Would you say that then? Because I feel like any rational person would be asking “Why does the US allow this to happen?” If not, why would you say it here? The US is simply backwards in this regard.
Puppy rape? Is that supposed to be an argument?
Would you come to the US’ defense in the same way that you are right now over state-sanctioned murder in the situation I outlined? It’s a very simple yes/no question that you’re tiptoeing around for seemingly no reason.
In saying that one state doesn’t speak for the entire country, YES. That was said in my first comment, maybe you should reread it.
Damn, last I checked, 27 plus the federal government was more than 1. Maybe the federal government expressed as an integer actually comes out to negative 26 and makes your ridiculous defense make any sense.
I didn’t mention numbers but you mentioned puppy rape. Stop drinking so early, it’ll rot your liver.
I didn’t mention numbers
One state
I think you got lost on the way to /c/preschool where they teach you what numbers are.
Sure, we’ll pretend that this hasn’t been happening here for hundreds of years across all 50 states.
SCOTUS does
Actually SCOTUS speaks for Trump since he was the POS that installed them.
The people are responsible for who they elect and the actions they take. So millions of people in the US are to blame for this even if they aren’t a majority thanks to how elections work in the US since Clinton won the popular vote.
Clinton was well over 30 years ago. Please join us in the present.
I was talking about 2016.
Still, almost 10 years ago.
SCOTUS appointments are for life. The 70 million or so who voted for him will be responsible even after their death of many of them.
Missouri isn’t so different from everywhere else
Where are you from?
I’ve spent a lifetime traveling the united states. i originate from Appalachia. bad and racist judgements come all across the country. any state with the death penalty on the books will eventually do this, and any state that doesn’t have the death penalty on the books has around 30% of people minimum who think it should be. you’re deluding yourself if you don’t think everywhere is like everywhere else just with different ratios of who is around
This would also mean California is like Alabama which is like New York which going even farther because borders are man-made, exactly like London which is exactly like Israel, Gaza, Yemen…see how your argument is stupid or do I need to go on?
no actually. i don’t see how my view that people are all people and the things we do is all in response to the context we grow up in is stupid. so please keep listing places that we have both the potential to improve or to degrade into depending on what actions we take and if we can learn to empathize
ok so technically, this wouldn’t be the US regime, this wouldn’t even be a regime at all judging by modern contemporary definitions.
The dude was executed under state law. In the united states.
Can we stop referring to the US like this? I get that we have problems but jesus christ it feels loaded calling us a “regime” we’re not all that oppressive, and we’re not all that anti-democratic. Calling it a regime probably makes it more of a regime than it is by itself.
we could’ve had a productive discussion on the problems with capital punishment, but nope. here we are, not even talking about it at all (aside from the comment threads)
this wouldn’t even be a regime at all judging by modern contemporary definitions.
I’d like to see the definition you’re talking about. The dictionary definitions definitely fit. Sometimes the definition doesn’t even have negative connotations. You’re just offended because someone used a word reserved for enemies of the US to describe the US.
ok so technically, regime is just a sort of generic term more often than not used to talk about a “government leadership” for ex. “stalins regime” or a “dictators regime” beyond that it’s use is usually specifically with reference to how the government operates.
An “anti rights regime” for ex. The problem that i have, is that not only does this, just not really apply, because we’re talking about a specific state, exercising independent rights over capital punishment, arguably illegally and immorally, considering the evidence we have doesn’t demonstrate him to be the murderer in this case.
The title frames it as if the “US” “regime” whatever that means, idk if it’s implying the president, the federal government, or the federal government and the state government, or that specific state government, there are so many levels of government in the US it’s really not appropriate to call it a “regime” you could call the trump admin or biden admin specifically a regime i guess. Though i’m not really sure what the point of that would be.
The title reads as if the “US government” (an entity, which is not an appropriate description) solely and single handedly murdered a guy who was not actually a criminal (which to be fair, did happen) and then it says “another” like it happens extremely regularly or something. Which while it happens more often than not, there aren’t that many to begin with? There have only been 18 so far as of this year. Even in the last like 50 years, only 200 people have been “exonerated” for their crimes. (only about 1600 people executed in that time as well) Most of those have been black, a majority even, the next highest is white and Hispanic, which make sense. So that seems to follow the populous of the jails at least from what i would expect. It looks like there have been about 20 “very likely innocent” people that have been executed in the same period.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/ most of my info has been from here and memory, don’t take it as gospel.
Like with all due respect, i just think this is an incredibly irresponsible and flagrant way to phrase the title specifically. Data doesn’t support it, the sheer numbers don’t support it either. Like the actual number is 0.000004% percent of the US population have been sentenced to death, and executed in the US since 1976. The VAST majority of that coming from the south.
Again, i don’t support capital punishment, i think it should be illegal, although i think if we’re going to keep it legal we should make them public, that way people actually have to deal with the consequences of the law. But It’s so miniscule to other problems like healthcare access, and obesity, that i really don’t think it warrants the title that implies the government is literally executing people on a whim as it pleases with no regard for anything at all.
TL;DR the title is extremely generous and i think rather inflammatory for something that simply doesn’t warrant it given the stats and figures, as well as the political structure of the government, and the clear public sentiment on the problem at hand.
just think this is an incredibly irresponsible and flagrant way to phrase the title specifically. Data doesn’t support it, the sheer numbers don’t support it either. Like the actual number is 0.000004% percent of the US population have been sentenced to death, and executed in the US since 1976.
You’ve completely lost the plot, mate. Nobody is saying that a significant percent of the population is being executed.
How many people have been executed on Putin’s orders? A hundred? So that’s only like 0.00007% of the Russian population. no big deal then.
The VAST majority of that coming from the south.
because we’re talking about a specific state, exercising independent rights over capital punishment,
Independent rights granted by the supreme court. AKA the federal government. The 9 robed, tenured individuals are part of the regime. You’re just uncritically accepting the federalist society’s position here.
Did you know there was once a moratorium on all executions in the US? But you seem to think of it as a natural law that Missouri has the right to execute whoever they please.
The title reads as if the “US government” (an entity, which is not an appropriate description) solely and single handedly murdered a guy
You’re inferring way too much here. Nobody said or implied that the US federal government was solely responsible for this execution. When a headline reads that the Russian regime assassinated a political dissident, do you take the time to point out the federated nature of the Russian government? Would it matter that the evidence points more to an official act of the Dagestan government instead of a direct order from the Kremlin?
Obviously this isn’t a perfect analogy. But the “US government” (the entity, which is an appropriate description) has given the greenlight for these executions. The supreme court has approved these punishments, and the executive and legislative branches have done nothing to prevent it.
You’ve completely lost the plot, mate. Nobody is saying that a significant percent of the population is being executed.
that’s weird, because the title seems to imply otherwise. I would think it would be worded differently otherwise.
How many people have been executed on Putin’s orders? A hundred? So that’s only like 0.00007% of the Russian population. no big deal then.
probably hundreds. And since we should make this roughly equivalent we should probably consider more broad deaths, picking an extremely broad one like, russian soldiers that have died that number is roughly 300,000 Which if you do the math for, is about 0.02% people killed under the orders of putin specifically.
Putin has also been around for a long time, prior to this he was a KGB member, so he probably has a handful of executions tied to his name there as well. The number is bound to be quite a few.
I wonder why.
that’s a possible influence, but the south is also more republican/conservative than the north, and conservatives tend to like capital punishment a lot more than the democrats. That may in it of itself be due to racism, or subconscious/subtle racism, but that’s a different story. Things are more often than not, very gray. Rather than black and white.
Independent rights granted by the supreme court. AKA the federal government. The 9 robed, tenured individuals are part of the regime. You’re just uncritically accepting the federalist society’s position here.
how else would a state have independent rights??? Illegally??? Yeah no shit it’s imbued upon the state by the federal government, that’s the whole fucking basis of the US government structure. It wasn’t created by god, it was created by the founders.
yes i’m uncritically accepting it, that’s literally how the government works, do you want me to pretend that reality isn’t real? “hmm yes i think the government does not work the way it has been stated to work”
Did you know there was once a moratorium on all executions in the US? But you seem to think of it as a natural law that Missouri has the right to execute whoever they please.
“Although the justices did not rule that the death penalty was unconstitutional, the Furman decision invalidated the death sentences of nearly 700 people. The decision mandated a degree of consistency in the application of the death penalty.” Technically not a moratorium, but in essence was one as states had to rewrite laws to be consistent with this ruling, which they did.
Since you don’t seem to understand how the US government works, will provide an explanation here. The federal government is the ultimate authority on things, if it rules on something, it’s the law that sticks. However this also requires enforcement (as seen with weed) if the federal government doesn’t rule on something in it’s entirety, the remaining discretion is left up to the states who only have to comply with what is explicitly stated in the federal law.
for example if the federal government said that you can’t “execute people without reason” every state that were to execute someone, would have to provide a reason, unless they want to break the law. But if they have a reason, it will comply, whether that reason or not is left up to the courts, and eventually the supreme court if it gets elevated that high, however generally the law is well written enough that this does not regularly happen, as well as states deliberating on it themselves and complying as they understand to be legal.
You’re inferring way too much here. Nobody said or implied that the US federal government was solely responsible for this execution.
i probably am, but in my defense, that title is shit and should’ve been written much better. For example something like “A US state has ruled to execute an innocent man” would’ve been fine. Unfortunately that’s not what it says, and it’s not very specific.
When a headline reads that the Russian regime assassinated a political dissident, do you take the time to point out the federated nature of the Russian government?
Generally not, but generally when russia shoots down a plane with anti air missiles, it’s probably not a federated authority engaging in that. A federated authority may execute someone, but that’s unlikely to make world news. It’s also worth noting that the governmental structure of russia, is different from the US, and is abused quite a bit more. So it’s not a super accurate comparison either.
Would it matter that the evidence points more to an official act of the Dagestan government instead of a direct order from the Kremlin?
if the implication is that the kremlin would’ve done it, when the kremlin didn’t do it, then yes that would matter, because that would be factually inaccurate.
Obviously this isn’t a perfect analogy. But the “US government” (the entity, which is an appropriate description) has given the greenlight for these executions. The supreme court has approved these punishments, and the executive and legislative branches have done nothing to prevent it.
the US government hasn’t to my knowledge given the authority for that specific execution though. The US government has given authority for capital punishment sure. But then we should be talking about that. To my knowledge, the federal government doesn’t oversee every single execution case that ever happens within the US, they might have overseen this specific one, but i don’t know much about it. And even if it did go to the federal supreme court, that would’ve likely been over a specific issue, as with the last objection they tried to make in his favor, arguing that they should’ve forgone the execution because it was done incorrectly, rather than absolving him of his guilt, as they claimed didn’t happen prior to executing him.
Even in this case i still think it would be inaccurate to say that the federal US government had “greenlit” this execution, when it merely ruled on one specific technicality in a many many years long legal battle surrounding the legality of this case. If you wanted to argue that the Missouri government is corrupt and “regime” like i think that would be a lot more accurate in this case.
Here to expand upon why i think this is an inaccurate telling. Let’s say someone asks you for a knife, to open a box or something. You give them a knife, and then you forget that they have it, and by the time you remember, they’ve used that knife to stab someone else. Are you now legally responsible for that stabbing? The answer is no.
Perhaps you might be if they literally told you “give me that knife, i’m going to stab someone with it” but even then it wouldn’t be guaranteed. You would essentially have to be an accomplice to the stabbing in order to be charged.
not all that oppressive
not all that anti-democratic
under a post about an innocent person being executed despite mountains of exonerative evidence
you are not a serious person
not all that oppressive
so far the worst thing that’s happened is an abortion ban, which is highly unpopular. As far as oppression goes, that’s pretty good, not great obviously, but it’s not killing people for protesting levels of oppression either so.
not all that anti-democratic
we literally live in a country with a democratic republic system, and multiple levels of government with independence. The worst thing to happen in the last 10 years was trump trying to over throw democracy, which i will remind you, didn’t work. Some people might point to kamala harris being on the ticket but that’s stupid, you can’t expect a primary party vote this close to locking in politicians, kamala was also the VP of the previous admin, so it’s not that different, and she also has her name on the super PAC funding as well. There just aren’t many options there. And even then, that doesn’t prevent you from voting, somehow. You can still vote for kill stein if you like supporting russian agents i guess. Or trump, if you hate democracy i guess. Or just some other dude.
under a post about an innocent person being executed despite mountains of exonerative evidence
i was complaining about the title and the wording of the title?
so far the worst thing that’s happened is an abortion ban
lol. we torture minorities in our prisons for being impoverished and refuse to prioritize the value of water over the value of oil executive profits. torturing women for daring to try to be equals is single head on our hydra of exploitative torture. it was 160 years since emancipation last year. there are people alive still who had peopl in their life who were owned.
The worst thing to happen in the last 10 years was trump trying to over throw democracy
the worst thing about the last ten years that incetivizes people to rupture the system for profit rather than to address the potential for someone to do that because the people holding power would rather rely on precedent than lose a single iota of power
lol.
i too laugh about torturing people, it’s very funny.
we torture minorities in our prisons for being impoverished
i don’t know anything about this, any sources for reading?
and refuse to prioritize the value of water over the value of oil executive profits.
i’m not sure what these have to do with each other, this is true for most countries. If you’re trying to say that we prioritize profits over secure access to water, i guess that might be true, but one of those is a problem, and another one of those is an economic goal. Those aren’t related. Compared to a lot of countries, the US has really good access to clean potable water.
torturing women for daring to try to be equals is single head on our hydra of exploitative torture.
what does this even mean, this isn’t english. This is a poor bastardization of english.
it was 160 years since emancipation last year. there are people alive still who had people in their life who were owned.
yeah and it’s like 70 years since stalin ruled over the USSR. Cool story bro, should i bring in the nazis also? That was only 80 years ago. Perhaps we should consider maos china, about the same time period 70 or so years ago.
the worst thing about the last ten years that incetivizes people to rupture the system for profit rather than to address the potential for someone to do that because the people holding power would rather rely on precedent than lose a single iota of power
you unironically think abuse of capital is a worse problem than stripping the rights of a countries own people?
deeply, deeply unserious
brother your name is “fidel cashflow”
i don’t want to hear it from you lmao.
i would prefer to never hear from you again either :)
you never had to respond to me lmao
It’s not a productive discussion that’s needed though. The death penalty has been going on for four centuries in the US. That’s an awful lot of time for an awful lot of productive discussions, and yet innocent people are still being put to death by the machinery of the state. At this point we’re just tired of it.
For the innocent victims of the death penalty, I imagine it feels like a regime. Like an inscrutable, bureaucratic behemoth, unable to change course even in the face of logic. It’s inhumane, it’s unreasonable. It’s a regime - an immovable set of arbitrary rules where no single individual has to take responsibility, and no individual human being’s decision can save you, even if you’re innocent. It’s a regime.well yeah the productive discussion is “stop doing the death penalty, it’s stupid”
For the innocent victims of the death penalty, I imagine it feels like a regime.
well i mean yeah, that would be the second definition of regime, even doing shit like renewing your license feels like dealing with a regime. Dealing with any government is technically “regime” like if you think about it for long enough.
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