I assume it does force DRM. I can’t play Terraria, skyrim, elder ring, etc. without it. I have not encountered one release which I can play without the runtime.
Terraria in particular shouldn’t use it unless it was forced to do so based off the fact that they’re available on gog which mandates games be drm free.
I’m not even allowed to run that game without updating it if it’s out of date. I literally can’t play a modded game because it may be rendered unplayable at any moment by the publisher. Makes the whole workshop people talk up all but useless.
Steam has it’s downsides,but none of your points are valid once you take a closer look.
Steam does not force it’s DRM on developers (and there are various publishers that use a different or no DRM)
I have no idea what your problem is with your runtime,but at least for me/my household there is literally no loading times for steam anymore. Have you considered that this might be a problem your device is creating,e.g. due to a slow drive?
Updating is indeed a pain in the arse (but can be circumvented)
I don’t know what you do to your client that you get the popups - I disabled them once and never got them again.
You never own a game unless you buy the holder of the IP. Read your TOS. You buy a licence to use a software and to obtain the necessary data to use it. Nothing more. Even when you buy a hardcopy in a shop you don’t own the software.
GOG has no requirement of games to be DRM free and there absolutely are games that are DRM protected on GOG - and publishers can choose which DRM to use when so it’s their decision anyway.
You can downgrade games in the setting as long as the publisher (!) allows/support it. It is done by a lot of games.
Don’t get me wrong,there are a lot of things wrong with Steam.
The monopoly it created, it’s child protection issues, it’s pricing towards developers(especially small ones), the fact that while at least in the EU you can now legally sell the account as such it still prohibits selling singlular usage licences, the fact that it is does harbour extremists and on the other hand willing censors itself to reach some markets are all major issues.
But the ones you mentioned aren’t and it waters down the actual problems.
You never own a game unless you buy the holder of the IP. Read your TOS. You buy a licence to use a software and to obtain the necessary data to use it. Nothing more. Even when you buy a hardcopy in a shop you don’t own the software.
If you own a physical cartridge/disk on an old console, you own permanently playable physical copies of the games. No publisher is able to stop you from playing it. It is a permanently usable piece of tangible property which you legally own. This is what people talk about when they say they “own” games. IDGAF if the GoG ToS says I don’t “own” a game if they have no ability to revoke my ability to play it once I’ve downloaded it. It’s as playable as any physical game, for as long as I keep my hard disks intact. This is what it means to “own” a non -service based game, by any sensible definition of the word.
No one here claimed you become, or deserve to become the IP holder of the software. This is just a strawman that you made up because the idea of someone not making the same idiotic purchasing decisions as you personally offends you.
You can downgrade games in the setting as long as the publisher (!) allows/support it. It is done by a lot of games.
Publishers should not be able to deny you the right to modify the software you downloaded after you downloaded it. If they have a different opinion on the matter then I won’t be a consumer of their services.
It’s all just Stockholm syndrome and copium for you. Maybe one day in your 40s steam will decide to bleed you dry for everything you think your library is worth. They’ll force you to pay a subscription fee just to access single player games purchased many years ago.
And you’ll be able to do nothing about it, because you never own a game unless you buy the holder of the IP. Read your TOS. You buy a licence to use a software and to obtain the necessary data to use it. Nothing more.
Terraria does not rely on steam features in order to engage with its core functionality. Perhaps you are trying to imply that the error is in the developers having integrated their publishers features into their release in such a way that a hard dependency on the runtime is formed when it shouldn’t be.
This is not a valid argument because whatever calls terraria is making to the runtime should have a fallback in place for when the runtime is not being used. That fallback should be implemented by a small dummy runtime or something. It shouldn’t be on the devs to ensure their single player game works when the publisher’s adware bloated garbage runtime stops working.
I am not saying that its the fault of the developers for implementing multiplayer, i am just saying that, from my experience, the DRM is related to games using steam for multiplayer
I also agree that the game should still be able to be played if you dont use he multiplayer
I am saying that steam doesnt force games to use DRM
afaik, steam drm is optional and its the devs decision to use it or not. thats why there is actually a list of games that are hosted on steam without DRM.
If like you say Steam is only garbage, make a list of good alternative.
Epic Game (worst)
Launcher -> horrible and worst than Steam. Actually you can use heroic games launcher (less problems)
Store -> really bad
DRM
Need update to play game
Only Windows / Mac (i don’t care about mobile for the small amount of game)
Not version for Linux and Tim Sweeney not like Linux and say a big amount of stupidity.
Doesn’t have all the tools and feature for dev like Steam
No Workshop alternative
Gog (need more game and feature)
Gog galaxy (latest test in 2022) -> good launcher but no Linux version
Games for Windows, Linux, Mac
Not all game can be found here because it’s only DRM free game
Doesn’t have all the tools and feature for dev like Steam
No Workshop alternative
From what i can see, Steam is not perfect but it’s better than Epic for sure, and have more feature and game than Gog. I don’t include itch because for me it’s not a gaming store.
If anyone have another store, or want to correct anything.
What about… Physical media? Like, ordering a dvd from amazon with your game on it that you then play on a machine that’s not even connected to the Internet?
For all the non opti game who take more than 100Go of space ? Multiple DVD/Blu-ray ?
Update: actually if a game need a update how to do this ?
Download a zip file to apply the patch ? Possibility to directly write the patch on the DVD/Blu-ray for future install ?
If we use DVD/Blu-ray we need a player to install the game (I really prefer to have one on my computer/laptop than nothing, but it’s not how things work now 😭).
I totally prefer the physical media, but it’s not perfect. To have something easy for consumer, the game industry need to do some change like : opti the game size, find a good method to update the game, and no DRM on the physical media.
For all the non opti game who take more than 100Go of space ? Multiple DVD/Blu-ray ?
Yes. That’s how it was done before, no reason to not do this now. Wing Commander 4 came on 6 CDs. As you progressed through the game, you kept advancing through them.
Update: actually if a game need a update how to do this ? Download a zip file to apply the patch ? Possibility to directly write the patch on the DVD/Blu-ray for future install ?
As Blu Rays are read only, you obviously can’t apply the patch there. The patches were always downloaded and applied to the game parts you had on your hard drive. What was wrong with that?
If we use DVD/Blu-ray we need a player to install the game
You need a device to read physical media to actually read physical media, yes.
it’s not how things work now
It’s not how things work because games that came on physical media had literally no advantage anymore at some point. With physical media just being used to speed up the first install in your always-online environment and bandwidth being no longer an issue, they just became obsolete. If I could have played half life 2 without steam using my disc, it would have been worth keeping. With the box being essentially just a bulky envelope for a product key, it turned out to be just a hassle.
At some point, steam will enshittify or shut down. That’s when we will realize that online only distribution might not have been such a great idea.
As Blu Rays are read only, you obviously can’t apply the patch there. The patches were always downloaded and applied to the game parts you had on your hard drive. What was wrong with that?
You need a “launcher” just to download update, and it’s not the most ideal for me. I prefer to have nothing between the button play (or click on the executable), and the game launch.
At some point, steam will enshittify or shut down. That’s when we will realize that online only distribution might not have been such a great idea.
I agree with you, only online is totally stupid because the moment the service shutdown you lose everything. This is why GOG is good, because after buying a game, I can create backup on external disk. The only biggest problem for me is they don’t have a good Linux integration for GOG Galaxy 2.
This is not perfect, but it’s a better start than nothing. And it’s difficult to do this because of DRM on other store.
You need a “launcher” just to download update, and it’s not the most ideal for me. I prefer to have nothing between the button play (or click on the executable), and the game launch.
What’s wrong with just downloading a patch and pointing it to the directory the game was installed in?
What’s wrong with just downloading a patch and pointing it to the directory the game was installed in?
Nothing, but you can be sure that’s not how it’s going to work. A simple example with Steam and certain games: you have one launcher with Steam, but you have another launcher between the game and Steam, and I don’t see why that’s necessary.
But the way you want to do it requires a bit more work, but nothing too complicated, and more and more people want something simple and easy to use, which is not the case with your proposal because they have to do more steps to be able to play.
Yes, but you can’t launch the game without Steam (I think some game can be start without Steam but I’m not sure). And i prefer to own my game, and the possibility to change how i launch the game (with or without the launcher).
I remember the physical media PC game days. At the end, the games had horrible copy protection/DRM. I remember not having an internet connection for a while and I went to buy a game that I could play. All the games on the shelf had a notice on the box that said “internet connection required”. Single player games needed to be activated, and if you ran out of activations you either had to contact the company to reset it or you were shit outta luck. I far prefer the combination of Steam and GoG.
I remember the physical media PC game days before those days when CDs had a copy protection that barely worked and nothing else. I got a game, headed home, installed it and played the whole afternoon without being online once.
That’s true, but those days are long behind us. Now, games are released in an unfinished state and require, at the very least, a day-one patch for any hope of a non-buggy experience. It’s sad affairs everywhere in all aspects of the industry.
Gog could use more games but if it’s between using a platform that forces you to use a runtime and nothing at all, I’d much rather play nothing at all.
I don’t want Gog to change in order to have more games in its store. In fact, I have a lot of games on Steam because of the simplicity on Linux and I don’t want Gog to become like Steam, I want a DRM-free alternative.
Fuck this platform.
Fuck mandatory DRM.
Fuck the garbage runtime that takes minutes to start every time I wanna play a goddamn single player game.
Fuck mandatory updates every time I want to play a goddamn single player game.
Fuck popup advertisements for events that reappear year by year no matter how many times I’ve disabled them
This platform prevents you from owning anything…
I don’t know how anyone could support this garbage.
Steam forces games to have DRM?
I guess i didnt notice the DRM of the games installed from steam that i was able to play without steam installed
Steam does not force DRM
I assume it does force DRM. I can’t play Terraria, skyrim, elder ring, etc. without it. I have not encountered one release which I can play without the runtime.
Terraria in particular shouldn’t use it unless it was forced to do so based off the fact that they’re available on gog which mandates games be drm free.
I’m not even allowed to run that game without updating it if it’s out of date. I literally can’t play a modded game because it may be rendered unplayable at any moment by the publisher. Makes the whole workshop people talk up all but useless.
So you ranted without knowing shit.
Steam has it’s downsides,but none of your points are valid once you take a closer look.
Steam does not force it’s DRM on developers (and there are various publishers that use a different or no DRM)
I have no idea what your problem is with your runtime,but at least for me/my household there is literally no loading times for steam anymore. Have you considered that this might be a problem your device is creating,e.g. due to a slow drive?
Updating is indeed a pain in the arse (but can be circumvented)
I don’t know what you do to your client that you get the popups - I disabled them once and never got them again.
You never own a game unless you buy the holder of the IP. Read your TOS. You buy a licence to use a software and to obtain the necessary data to use it. Nothing more. Even when you buy a hardcopy in a shop you don’t own the software.
GOG has no requirement of games to be DRM free and there absolutely are games that are DRM protected on GOG - and publishers can choose which DRM to use when so it’s their decision anyway.
You can downgrade games in the setting as long as the publisher (!) allows/support it. It is done by a lot of games.
Don’t get me wrong,there are a lot of things wrong with Steam. The monopoly it created, it’s child protection issues, it’s pricing towards developers(especially small ones), the fact that while at least in the EU you can now legally sell the account as such it still prohibits selling singlular usage licences, the fact that it is does harbour extremists and on the other hand willing censors itself to reach some markets are all major issues.
But the ones you mentioned aren’t and it waters down the actual problems.
If you own a physical cartridge/disk on an old console, you own permanently playable physical copies of the games. No publisher is able to stop you from playing it. It is a permanently usable piece of tangible property which you legally own. This is what people talk about when they say they “own” games. IDGAF if the GoG ToS says I don’t “own” a game if they have no ability to revoke my ability to play it once I’ve downloaded it. It’s as playable as any physical game, for as long as I keep my hard disks intact. This is what it means to “own” a non -service based game, by any sensible definition of the word.
No one here claimed you become, or deserve to become the IP holder of the software. This is just a strawman that you made up because the idea of someone not making the same idiotic purchasing decisions as you personally offends you.
Publishers should not be able to deny you the right to modify the software you downloaded after you downloaded it. If they have a different opinion on the matter then I won’t be a consumer of their services.
It’s all just Stockholm syndrome and copium for you. Maybe one day in your 40s steam will decide to bleed you dry for everything you think your library is worth. They’ll force you to pay a subscription fee just to access single player games purchased many years ago.
And you’ll be able to do nothing about it, because you never own a game unless you buy the holder of the IP. Read your TOS. You buy a licence to use a software and to obtain the necessary data to use it. Nothing more.
Keep defending your abuser though I guess.
As far as i know, terraria has DRM because it uses steam features(for multiplayer)
Celeste and stardew valley dont have DRM so its not forced
Terraria does not rely on steam features in order to engage with its core functionality. Perhaps you are trying to imply that the error is in the developers having integrated their publishers features into their release in such a way that a hard dependency on the runtime is formed when it shouldn’t be.
This is not a valid argument because whatever calls terraria is making to the runtime should have a fallback in place for when the runtime is not being used. That fallback should be implemented by a small dummy runtime or something. It shouldn’t be on the devs to ensure their single player game works when the publisher’s adware bloated garbage runtime stops working.
I am not saying that its the fault of the developers for implementing multiplayer, i am just saying that, from my experience, the DRM is related to games using steam for multiplayer
I also agree that the game should still be able to be played if you dont use he multiplayer
I am saying that steam doesnt force games to use DRM
afaik, steam drm is optional and its the devs decision to use it or not. thats why there is actually a list of games that are hosted on steam without DRM.
If like you say Steam is only garbage, make a list of good alternative.
Epic Game (worst)
Gog (need more game and feature)
From what i can see, Steam is not perfect but it’s better than Epic for sure, and have more feature and game than Gog. I don’t include itch because for me it’s not a gaming store.
If anyone have another store, or want to correct anything.
What about… Physical media? Like, ordering a dvd from amazon with your game on it that you then play on a machine that’s not even connected to the Internet?
I see some problem with physical media :
If we use DVD/Blu-ray we need a player to install the game (I really prefer to have one on my computer/laptop than nothing, but it’s not how things work now 😭).
I totally prefer the physical media, but it’s not perfect. To have something easy for consumer, the game industry need to do some change like : opti the game size, find a good method to update the game, and no DRM on the physical media.
Yes. That’s how it was done before, no reason to not do this now. Wing Commander 4 came on 6 CDs. As you progressed through the game, you kept advancing through them.
As Blu Rays are read only, you obviously can’t apply the patch there. The patches were always downloaded and applied to the game parts you had on your hard drive. What was wrong with that?
You need a device to read physical media to actually read physical media, yes.
It’s not how things work because games that came on physical media had literally no advantage anymore at some point. With physical media just being used to speed up the first install in your always-online environment and bandwidth being no longer an issue, they just became obsolete. If I could have played half life 2 without steam using my disc, it would have been worth keeping. With the box being essentially just a bulky envelope for a product key, it turned out to be just a hassle.
At some point, steam will enshittify or shut down. That’s when we will realize that online only distribution might not have been such a great idea.
You need a “launcher” just to download update, and it’s not the most ideal for me. I prefer to have nothing between the button play (or click on the executable), and the game launch.
I agree with you, only online is totally stupid because the moment the service shutdown you lose everything. This is why GOG is good, because after buying a game, I can create backup on external disk. The only biggest problem for me is they don’t have a good Linux integration for GOG Galaxy 2.
This is not perfect, but it’s a better start than nothing. And it’s difficult to do this because of DRM on other store.
What’s wrong with just downloading a patch and pointing it to the directory the game was installed in?
Nothing, but you can be sure that’s not how it’s going to work. A simple example with Steam and certain games: you have one launcher with Steam, but you have another launcher between the game and Steam, and I don’t see why that’s necessary.
But the way you want to do it requires a bit more work, but nothing too complicated, and more and more people want something simple and easy to use, which is not the case with your proposal because they have to do more steps to be able to play.
But you actually can backup your steam games on a external drive.
Yes, but you can’t launch the game without Steam (I think some game can be start without Steam but I’m not sure). And i prefer to own my game, and the possibility to change how i launch the game (with or without the launcher).
It’s far from ideal solution, but you can create offline backup on steam and after steam fall, launch your games from it.
I remember the physical media PC game days. At the end, the games had horrible copy protection/DRM. I remember not having an internet connection for a while and I went to buy a game that I could play. All the games on the shelf had a notice on the box that said “internet connection required”. Single player games needed to be activated, and if you ran out of activations you either had to contact the company to reset it or you were shit outta luck. I far prefer the combination of Steam and GoG.
I remember the physical media PC game days before those days when CDs had a copy protection that barely worked and nothing else. I got a game, headed home, installed it and played the whole afternoon without being online once.
That’s true, but those days are long behind us. Now, games are released in an unfinished state and require, at the very least, a day-one patch for any hope of a non-buggy experience. It’s sad affairs everywhere in all aspects of the industry.
Gog could use more games but if it’s between using a platform that forces you to use a runtime and nothing at all, I’d much rather play nothing at all.
I don’t want Gog to change in order to have more games in its store. In fact, I have a lot of games on Steam because of the simplicity on Linux and I don’t want Gog to become like Steam, I want a DRM-free alternative.
Found Tim Sweeney.