“The young man was not dangling from a tree. He was not swinging from a tree. The rope was wrapped around his neck. It was not a noose. There was not a knot in the rope, so therefore, it was not a lynching here in Vance County.”
Umm, are you saying it wasn’t a lynching on a technicality? Everyone in the south must be Olympic level mental gymnasts. In particular to say there’s no evidence of foul play, at least.
This is like Russian dissidents falling out of windows or down stairs.
The legal definitions can be far removed from normal usage: in California “lynching” is when a crowd forcibly removes a suspect from police custody, which historically was often a prelude to what we would recognize as actual lynching (presumably it was defined that way so participants could be charged even if they were stopped before harming the victim). But it’s been used in more recent times to charge protesters with “lynching” for interfering with the arrest of other protesters.
That is interesting that it has bespoke legal definitions. The Wikipedia entry is what I expected
Lynching is an extrajudicial killing by a group. It is most often used to characterize informal public executions by a mob in order to punish an alleged transgressor, punish a convicted transgressor, or intimidate people. It can also be an extreme form of informal group social control, and it is often conducted with the
A group could be three dudes in Klan robes. I haven’t seen anything yet indicating that applies here. But the history of Deep South racism is also a history of terrorism. It only takes three homicidal maniacs to terrify a county.
Brame told ABC11 that there were no signs of foul play in Magee’s death.
Suicide and lynching can look similar. The officer said no signs of foul play first, then got a little too technical on the details of lynching as a response to speculation which probabky contained those details.
Yes, the response about specific details sounds ridiculous in a vacuum. But keep in mind that what he is saying is also a way to describe why a suicide isn’t a lynching.
At least the police are reaching out to an external agency to hopefully provide some conformation on the circumstances.
Rope was wrapped around his neck, and wrapping rope around a rough or aoft object a few times can create enough friction to keep it from moving. So loop it around the neck a few times, and around the trunk a few times, and it will behave the same way as being tied on both ends with some tension if the loops are pressed against each other.
So from a standing position loop it around the tree a few times, the neck a few times, and then sag so the friction keeps it in place. My understanding is that people who die from autoerotic asphyxiation sometimes have the rope looped around their neck without tightening it thinking it will slip off if they pass out but end up hanging themselves instead because it doesn’t slip off. Someone who is committing suicide could have the same end result if they left it untied just in case, but if it tightens and gets stuck they will still die from strangulation.
I’m not gonna say it’s not possible and honestly I’d like to see the tree it happened on but if you’re gonna actually kill yourself with a rope a noose isn’t hard to learn to tie.
I actually think it would be easier to learn to tie a noose than it would be to configure the rope in the way you described.
This reeks of foul play. Like it’s practically dripping with it.
I actually think it would be easier to learn to tie a noose than it would be to configure the rope in the way you described.
I’m literally describing just winding a rope around a cylinder, then around another cylinder. It is also a way to intentionally set up a suicide, although it might be the least likely way that he died.
Of course if he was really drunk or under the influence of some other drug it is also possible that something led to him wrapping rope around his neck and choking out. Or he had the rope around his neck, but died from some other means like an overdoes. There are dozens of things that could accidentally lead to death with a rope looped around the neck that are more likely that intentional suicide.
He said Magee went to a nearby Walmart shortly before he died. That is where he is believed to have bought the rope found around his neck.
If this young man bought the rope himself, if there is evidence of this like surveillance video, that paints this situation in a pretty different light.
Edit: I want to be very clear that the police should be presenting any evidence they have of this. I would not take the police at their word. My comment here hinges on the report being true.
Call it what you will, it’s a travesty and should be taken very seriously. But, this is the south, and most southerners love to mince words; especially when it comes to race and politics.
This could be funny if it wasn’t so sad. Reminds me of the episode in The Wire where the various departments wouldn’t take responsibility over the dead girls in the can because of they could t pinpoint where exactly they died and when. They care too much for the state. God forbid there’s a lynching and instead of admitting they have a problem they focus on cooking the stats.
Umm, are you saying it wasn’t a lynching on a technicality? Everyone in the south must be Olympic level mental gymnasts. In particular to say there’s no evidence of foul play, at least.
This is like Russian dissidents falling out of windows or down stairs.
The legal definitions can be far removed from normal usage: in California “lynching” is when a crowd forcibly removes a suspect from police custody, which historically was often a prelude to what we would recognize as actual lynching (presumably it was defined that way so participants could be charged even if they were stopped before harming the victim). But it’s been used in more recent times to charge protesters with “lynching” for interfering with the arrest of other protesters.
That is interesting that it has bespoke legal definitions. The Wikipedia entry is what I expected
Yes, legal definitions vary a lot by jurisdiction. “Assault and battery” is probably the most varied. Some places they’re two separate things.
I guess based on that definition, since it wasn’t proven yet that a group of people did this, it does not meet the criteria.
A group could be three dudes in Klan robes. I haven’t seen anything yet indicating that applies here. But the history of Deep South racism is also a history of terrorism. It only takes three homicidal maniacs to terrify a county.
I didn’t realise lynching had to be done in a certain specific way.
Yeah, otherwise it’s just sparkling racism.
otherwise is general racism, not specific enough for “lynching”
/s
It’s not a real lynching unless you know how to tie a proper noose. That means 13 loops.
Suicide and lynching can look similar. The officer said no signs of foul play first, then got a little too technical on the details of lynching as a response to speculation which probabky contained those details.
Yes, the response about specific details sounds ridiculous in a vacuum. But keep in mind that what he is saying is also a way to describe why a suicide isn’t a lynching.
At least the police are reaching out to an external agency to hopefully provide some conformation on the circumstances.
I would love to see someone explain how you could commit suicide by having an untied rope around a tree.
D E D I C A T I O N
Rope was wrapped around his neck, and wrapping rope around a rough or aoft object a few times can create enough friction to keep it from moving. So loop it around the neck a few times, and around the trunk a few times, and it will behave the same way as being tied on both ends with some tension if the loops are pressed against each other.
So from a standing position loop it around the tree a few times, the neck a few times, and then sag so the friction keeps it in place. My understanding is that people who die from autoerotic asphyxiation sometimes have the rope looped around their neck without tightening it thinking it will slip off if they pass out but end up hanging themselves instead because it doesn’t slip off. Someone who is committing suicide could have the same end result if they left it untied just in case, but if it tightens and gets stuck they will still die from strangulation.
That all sounds like a huge leap to me.
I’m not gonna say it’s not possible and honestly I’d like to see the tree it happened on but if you’re gonna actually kill yourself with a rope a noose isn’t hard to learn to tie.
I actually think it would be easier to learn to tie a noose than it would be to configure the rope in the way you described.
This reeks of foul play. Like it’s practically dripping with it.
I’m literally describing just winding a rope around a cylinder, then around another cylinder. It is also a way to intentionally set up a suicide, although it might be the least likely way that he died.
Of course if he was really drunk or under the influence of some other drug it is also possible that something led to him wrapping rope around his neck and choking out. Or he had the rope around his neck, but died from some other means like an overdoes. There are dozens of things that could accidentally lead to death with a rope looped around the neck that are more likely that intentional suicide.
If this young man bought the rope himself, if there is evidence of this like surveillance video, that paints this situation in a pretty different light.
Edit: I want to be very clear that the police should be presenting any evidence they have of this. I would not take the police at their word. My comment here hinges on the report being true.
Are you willing to wait for the investigation to finish, or do you prefer to have incomplete information so you can jump to conclusions sooner?
Maybe the cop should have waited for the investigation to finish before making a fool of themselves by jumping to the conclusion of what this was not.
Ho ho ho seems we got our gold medalist right here
very high chances they were interrupted trying to hang him or the body afterwards. sheriff is a tool.
He obviously hung himself from the tree with nothing to stand on and then untied the rope as a precaution. You know, in case any kids walked by.
Call it what you will, it’s a travesty and should be taken very seriously. But, this is the south, and most southerners love to mince words; especially when it comes to race and politics.
“Special strangulation operation”
This could be funny if it wasn’t so sad. Reminds me of the episode in The Wire where the various departments wouldn’t take responsibility over the dead girls in the can because of they could t pinpoint where exactly they died and when. They care too much for the state. God forbid there’s a lynching and instead of admitting they have a problem they focus on cooking the stats.
Read between the lines, from what they revealed.
His feet were on the ground.
He bought the rope himself.
He was found not far from his semi.
The rope was wrapped around his neck and not tied together.
The guy was doing some self choking to get off. His “safety” was thinking that if he blacked out the rope would drop off him, but it didn’t work.
Or intentional suicide. Hard to know at this point since all three can end with a body and a rope around the neck.