- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
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maybe a mass movement and a few other… things… will do it.
Yes, it can and that’s why we should keep trying.
But it does seem less likely than in 2016.
I’m not desperate (am Canadian) but I don’t blame desperate people.
The ends don’t justify the means but no one is denying that they do get results.
And that the correct means have been tried for decades.
I feel like we’ve made more progress in our national discussion regarfing healthcare since the assassination than we have in the previous 10 years.
I don’t want to think that violence is the answer, but damn if it ain’t a conversation starter.
There is no escaping that sometimes violence is the only answer. It took that level of drama for right wingers to acknowledge what they have in common with progressives. It’s really hard for right wing populists to resist supporting murder.
I’ve also seen more people realize that an armed populace can provide a check on oppression witpopulrequiring a revolutionary uprising and defeating the military.
Having more guns than people means that the more people you piss off, the less safe you are.
If ine nutjob with a gun wants a politician or business leader dead, they can be stopped.
If 100,000 nutjobs want to assassinate you, one of them is gonna slip through.
There’s also the fact that the day after many insurance companies were suddenly approving procedures they denied the day before.
In all likelihood the assassination saved lives.
It can’t be Democrats or republicans, those both are cunts.
Need to support a new party.
Is “working families” legit?
Sadly I dont see a third party ever being the solution due to our first past the post political system. We need election reform for a third party to exist, and those 2 cunts you mentioned would NEVER allow election reform to happen on their watch.
So why not start right now? Not 3 months before elections, now.
Create a web platform and organize. Idea is - to create a “troll” factory but not for trolling , but rather for propagandizing the cause. Let’s say you have 10000 accounts army you can then direct on pushing the news and ideas we want and candidates we want.
So If i am understanding correctly. You want to use bots to spread propaganda to influence politics? The problem is that congress is going to vote how their donors tell them to vote, they don’t give a fuck what their voter base wants. You would also be competing against exactly what you are suggesting, giant capitalist media companies, and bot armies from hostile nation states. You just cant compete with their resources in spreading propaganda.
The Working Families party is like the Tea Party for the Democrats. I don’t believe they ever run as a third party.
How can they get elected? If the party is in the actual interest of American society then all of the money will be stacked up in opposition to them.
Because people like you will spread the word! :)
It’s true though that the Tea Party was quickly captured and turned into an astroturf campaign, so it had a lot of money behind it.
Unfortunately, changing the world isn’t easy.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
Cool so let’s just give up then I guess.
It always cracks me up how the passive aggressive person saying “lets just give up then!” when one roadblock in a plan is pointed out, is generally the only person giving up. Oh no, the idea I wanted doesn’t work, guess were all out of options.
Let me rephrase your comment for you.
“We can’t go third party without election reform. Also election reform is impossible.”
Yeah I know what I said, as I was the one who said it, but since subtlety is clearly lost on you… Corruption through capitalist money has captured the government. Nothing is going to change in America without a revolution, otherwise we will continue to barrel fullsteam towards global financial collapse, or world war. If you’re interested please shoot me any way you think the system can be fixed without some sort of large violent upheaval and ill described 3 ways in which the system is already securely rigged against it. Ill give you reason #1 as a freebie since it applies to any route you may suggest: they have become way too good at pitting us against each other over wedge issues about shit that doesn’t affect us, so we just accept voting for things based on social issues, and as such we can never vote on real issues.
The Working Families party appears to be legit. Adam Conover did an interview with one of their organizers and it really felt like they had the right ideas and were building the right tools to give power to the people, while understanding the system as-is is stacked against what they want.
I’ve had enough of my country being for hire.
There has to be a LOT of caution in not letting neolib leadership in the door. neolib commoners? yes. Neolib leaders? No. They just enabled a genocide for money in our name, with the whole world watching. They are pure poison and have to be left outside like pets that have turned rabid. Biden, Harris, Pelosi, Schumer, Clinton (not sure baout Obama) they are not our friends or allies. They are holding us down and doing what they want. Let them join the republican party where they always belonged.
They need to be disavowed for this new party to have any chance at being taken seriously. The second these bastards get in they will look to overthrow whatever is built and bring back pay-for-play mercenary politics like AIPAC.
I know we loved the leaded solution and we won’t cry if more happens but yeah at the of the day the system will need a legal reform to properly depose the parasites.
Shootings might continue until morale improves?
I feel like there’s a real chance they will continue… The reaction to this was just so insanely positive, despite the fact a man was murdered.
Have we ever seen anything like this as a country before? I’m genuinely curious…
History is already absolutely littered with examples of this, and its a miracle there hasnt been more of it yet in the US.
My morale is already improving personally. 3 lead tablets a day keeps the insurance companies at bay. Guaranteed to get you a better rate.
RL lakecityquietpills
We’ve had several mass movements about it over the past 15~20 years, the only thing that has worked so far is lead poisoning.
I want to live in the timeline where things Bernie sees actually come true.
If it weren’t for Hillary and the DNC being corrupt, Bernie would have destroyed trump in 2016. I know so many people where I was living in middle America that flipped from Bernie to Trump.
I never supported the orange (am Canadian so I don’t get a say) but after Bernie lost in 2016, I kind of wanted him to win (not enough to actually vote differently though).
Why? Cause I knew he would get us here faster.
If we are going on the wrong path before we correct course, might as well do it faster.
I want a revolution, I prefer FDR style, but I guess the only option is French style (which I don’t officially support).
I wasn’t in middle America, but experienced the same thing. I still don’t understand it. Is it just populism? If so, not good. I definitely shed friends in 2016.
It’s populism, but it’s a populism of “things definitely aren’t good and need to change”. Hope worked as a democratic message, the dems were seen as the less corporate party, then the reps ran a right wing populist while the dems ran a former first lady who wasn’t acknowledging their needs and fears. The current situation has become one in which the dems see every election in terms of social issues because they don’t see the reality: they’re the party of “we need adults to govern” and the reps are the party of emotive grievance. The dems can’t win the bigot vote by being bigoted enough. But they can win the frustrated vote by running on a platform of reasonable and solid change by those committed to it. But if they di they lose the billiojsires to the fascists.
It’s because Trump advocates for change. Now it’s not good change but he’s definitely not a fan of the status quo, which gets you votes when the other guy is a Democrat centrist beholden to status quo-loving corporate donors.
I would argue that the change he advocates for is in the direction of the worst parts of status quo. The unbridled capitalistic endeavors of the rich, specifically. Very different than Bernie Sanders.
That’s true, but voters who are uneducated or simply don’t care about politics will see what he’s selling and think he’s at least better than the DNC’s “why would you want change? Everything is fine” nonsense.
So it really does just boil down to populism for some folks, then? That’s hard, thanks for posing it this way.
Populism is efficient, yes. You can see that all around the world.
Populism boosted by new media (internet) vs. lobbyism striving to maintain status quo.
Alright but Hillary Clinton beat Bernie Sanders in the Primary Elections, so the “corruption” you’re referring to is like 30 Million People.
Orly?
Yeah, vote totals were like 16 Million for Hillary Clinton and 13 Million for Bernie Sanders. Maybe if more people voted in the primaries we would see Bernie at the helm.
Yes, because of the “super” delegates which was like 20 people who can automatically outvote the other hundreds of delegates.
They are talking about popular vote, not how delegates voted. And they voted according to popular vote. Every time.
I don’t know what will happen if the people will vote differently than delegates would like to, but so far it never happenedPeople voted for her, and Biden, because they thought they could win the general, because they were “popular” during the primaries. Not to mention the whole media misrepresented his policies, attitudes, supporters, etc. It’s very easy to convince people to vote against their interest with the proper tricks (which Trump as our current President-elect proves).
It was real close except for the millions more people who voted for Hillary.
Edit: sorry for the transparency making it hard to read on dark modes.
certainly if the movement is fast enough, as we’ve learned.
Say a muzzle velocity of roughly 1100 ft per second?
Sometimes it do be like that
Bernie can read the room. These other fuckers very much less so.
I’d step back onto the streets with Bernie at the head again. A small part of me still holds that hope from 2016.
So many fucking years ago. Ended any passion I had towards politics.
Yeah… it’s hard. If it wasn’t for my student loans I’d only have about $4000 in leftover reoccurring bills outside of the usual living expenses such as rent and utilities today. Back then I donated more to a campaign than I have donated before or since combined for anything I worked hard. Talked to everyone. Helped found a subreddit for election and voting protection through information. I even went to local watch parties.
I think we are ready for that again. Many of us would stand and fight with Bernie, Jon Stewart, AOC. Most of us who were a part of that understand why people chose to not vote for the status quo. But man, fuck, it’s tiring feeling so disjointed and at best loosely aligned.
We need a community.
Never forget Bernie’s legacy… https://youtu.be/ZlZaVtCT5HI
The others can read the room too; they’re just in an entirely different room.
In the took with CEOs?
you’re a fool of a took
Yes he can. I am happy he still has a voice.
I feel like they can just choose not to because wheres the money in that?!
So he wants us to beat ceos. Got it
Word is, when Bernie first saw the news of the murder, he said, “Fuck yes.”
Even if he didn’t support the action, it is clearly getting us to talk about what he wants to talk about.
The problem in my country is that most people are complacent and could care less to do anything about it aside from trying to overthrow the government because they had to wear masks and take a vaccine.
Dont forget that at its core those people are outraged with the hand they were dealt, the GOP is just very good at directing that anger where they want (in that case masks and vaccines). However there is an option where we can stop dem vs gop fighting at a citizen level, and channel our outrage together at the people who are actually ruining our lives, billionaires and their government lackeys. Otherwise its total economic collapse, or WW3
For me, it’s canada, and the liberal and conservative party. As it stands, the cons will win a majority goverment if there was an election called today, as there is alot of distaste for justin trudeau. The thing i’m most afraid of is bringing ethno-christian values into the country as legal laws, and cutting programs that benefit canadians, like the cons have done in the past.
Yeah its the same in the US. Ultimately its just a wedge issue to keep left and right fighting each other so that the capitalists can continue to rob us all blind.
The problem is that people my age, and older are complacent, or want the conservatives to win. They are brainwashed by social media and love trump.
Stop thinking about con vs lib, that’s step 1. Its the 99 against the 1. The more you discuss liberal this, conservative that, the more divided we are, the less we can actually affect change.
Mass movements can do lots of things, but we can’t even get a majority of people to vote…
Because people don’t feel represented in the current FPTP voting-system, which to be fair, was designed by wealthy romans to benefit wealthy romans.
Voting is how we got here…
Political proces and utterly captured
Otherwise we would have had Bernie 2016.
I am tired of political clowns pretending like politics is the solution, it is key part of the problem.
Did you see how politicians are reacting here.
Besides Bernie that is
We can get a majority of those that do vote to vote for Trump so I am not that hopeful.
As it turns out, you only need like around 5% of the population to start a revolution (if even that amount). Revolutions have been started with even fractions of a percent.
I can’t even get a plurality of people to agree that we should have a national strike.
This country needs to have a mass bowel movement and flush that shit down the drain.
Fuck it, i think Luigi’s method is gonna be more effective.
deleted by creator
What’s easier, motivating hundreds of thousands of people to get out and protest, or letting a few moderately motivated people take direct action?
Not protest. Y’all need at least a general strike to have a shot at doing something. That or found/get behind a third party and kill the DNC.
You are correct but the person you are responding is more correct
