Yall need to learn some history.
The liberal SDP split with the communists, supporting “centrist” Hindenburg in the name of unity.
The communists campaigned on “A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler is a vote for war”
Hindenburg won the election, getting more votes than either the communist or fascist candidates.
Hindenburg, the liberal candidate, then proceeded to make Hitler the chancellor and staff positions of power with nazis while purging the government of communists.
The nazis then barely had to do anything to assert complete control.
The nazis didn’t get in power because communists stayed home, they got into power because the liberals would rather work with fascists than communists.
Those lib kids would be very upset if they could read
and lets not forget what stopped hitler wasnt electoralism. it was the soviets, and they needed force at that point.
And the Ukrainians, and the Poles, and the French resistance, and the British, and the Americans, and the Canadians, and…
the soviets were the ones to bear the weight of all the casualties. while your heroes were sipping tea waiting for them to be destroyed by the nazis…
the british, really? americans? yall need to open a history book. ever heard of operation paperclip? or how anticommunist most of these were?
Exactly, the country that shared a massive land border with the NAZIs and was a direct target of their aggression suffered many more casualties than the ones what didn’t, who’da thunk it? Without the combined efforts of essentially the entire rest of the world, the USSR would have been toast.
The USSR did most of the work beating the nazis. America helped.
During Hitlers Ascent to Power, the communist still considered the SPD to be the bigger threat and refused to march with them. And the SPD of the 1930 were by no means “liberals”. They were further to the left than any democrat has ever been.
the communist still considered the SPD to be the bigger threat and refused to march with them
…which was confirmed when they agreed with the Nazis… And when they collaborated with the Freikorps to crush, torture, and murder the communists.
And the SPD of the 1930 were by no means “liberals”. They were further to the left than any democrat has ever been.
Go ask Rosa Luxembourg, leader of communists in Germany and murdered at 47 at the order of SPD, how progressive and left the SPD was. “Left is when you agree to murder and torture communists”. Fucking revisionists man
They agreed with Hitler? They were the only faction voting against him during the Gleichschaltungkrise.
“Left is when you agree tp torture and murder communists”. So we both agree that the Stalinist Sovietunion and the KPD, which allied themselves with them arent left?
No, both SPD and KPD were way to the left of all pther political parties and had they banded together, like they did during the Kappputsch, my homecountry wouldnt have been destroyed and 60 Million People would probably still be alive. After every other institution failed Germany, these two failed them in conjunction by not even trying to organize a joined force.
So we both agree that the Stalinist Sovietunion and the KPD, which allied themselves with them arent left?
One country ended up with Nazis. The other ended up defeating the Nazis. I’d say the Bolsheviks did a better job, didn’t they? The fact that there was oppression against Mensheviks and SRs in the context of a civil war, doesn’t mean they’re anticommunists, they didn’t quite literally enable the Nazis in order to murder the ones who were more communist than them, but defeat them instead.
Want to find the blame for Nazism in Germany? The fault is primarily of Nazis, and then of Nazi enablers, and then of anti-communist leftists.
The other ended up defeating the Nazis. I’d say the Bolsheviks did a better job, didn’t they?
Uh. The Bolsheviks actively collaborated with Hitler and the Nazis, right up until Operation Barbarossa. The Soviets carved up Poland between themselves and Germany, and tried to invade Finland (Winter War, Continuation War), which is why the Finns ended up allying with the Nazis after Operation Barbarossa.
Got it bro, the actual Nazis aren’t the Nazis, neither the ones who eliminated the most radical oppositors to Nazism, but actually the ones that died 26+mn of trying to fight them. God, you anti-communist revisionists are exhausting.
The Bolsheviks actively collaborated with Hitler and the Nazis, right up until Operation Barbarossa
Ugh, not this Nazi talking point again… The Soviet Union pursued for all the 30s a policy called “collective security”, in which it desperately tried to achieve mutual-defense pacts with England, France and Poland because the soviets knew that their 15-year-old nation which had only just started industrializing since the end of the feudal and backwards Russian Empire, didn’t have a chance alone against the Nazis with their 150 year long history of industry (as would be seen later with the USSR suffering 26+mn deaths during the war, in places like Belarus 1 in 4 people died). The USSR wanted these mutual defense agreements to the point of offering to send 1 million soldiers to France and England if they agreed to mutual defense… which France, England and Poland denied because they thought Nazis would attempt their declared goal of eliminating communisnm and massacring the “slavic untermenschen”. After this was denied and it was obvious that the west would rather see the USSR invaded than reach a mutual defense agreement, they did the only possible course of action: delaying the war as much as possible to prepare for it and industrialize a bit more. That’s where the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact takes place, not before a decade of exhausting every possible negotiation route with France and England in opposition to Nazism.
The fact that the USSR then proceeded to (rather bloodlessly, around 50k deaths overall, very comparable to the oppression within the USSR itself) invade Poland, has to do with the USSR not trusting the Polish government. Why? In 1917, the Bolshevik revolution drafted an unprecedentedly progressive constitution which granted the right to self-determination and lawful secession to all peoples of the former Russian Empire. That’s how many countries such as Finland or Poland suddenly gained independence lawfully and peacefully in a never-before-seen act of respect of the right of self-determination. What did Poland immediately proceed to do? Become fully nationalist, ignore the right to self-determination of other peoples, and invade Ukraine (and later the USSR) in an attempt to gain territories they considered theirs by historical right. When they had conquered a good chunk of modern Ukraine and Belarus, the Polish Government decided it was a good idea to start a war against the USSR, since the USSR was plunged deep into a civil war and didn’t have many resources or troops to defend itself, and some conquests and victories could grant them a positive peace agreement which granted the territories the Polish Nationalists considered theirs (while ignoring the right to self-determination that the Bolsheviks had granted them less than two years earlier). Poland was also happy to make peace and appeasement treaties with Nazi Germany as long as they could also get some territorial gains from Czechoslovak land.
Similarly, Finland in 1917 after gaining independence, was plunged into a civil war between communists and whites, which the latter won and proceeded to imprison communists in Finland who had supported the Reds, around 80k of which some 12k died (funny how nobody talks about that). The USSR had reasons to suspect of a possible alliance between the Finnish government and the Nazis, and proceeded to invade Finland. After the failure of the invasion, as you said, Finland joined the Nazis.
Blaming the USSR for entering a non-aggression treaty with the Nazis, when all western nations had done it, and after 10 years of the USSR trying to make mutual defense agreement with Poland, England and France, is at best ignorant, and at worst purposefully misinforming with an agenda. The USSR had reasons to suspect of Poland and Finland (especially given its history of constant betrayals by all European powers since the October Revolution, with 14 countries sending troops to aid the Tsarist loyalists against the Bolsheviks) and, while outright invasions may not be justified, it could all have been prevented if the western powers had actually agreed to fight nazism. It’s absolutely nuts to blame the USSR and call them “collaborators with Nazis” given the historical background of the two decades before the war, especially the latter.
rather bloodlessly, around 50k deaths overall,
Wut.
50,000 deaths is ‘rather bloodlessly’? And since that’s comparable to oppression within the USSR, it’s not that bad?
while outright invasions may not be justified,
Correct. That, right there, is the most important point you’ve made. They collaborated with Nazis to carve up territories, and were then shocked when the Nazis turned on them. As far as the appeasement pacts made with Nazi Germany by France, England, et al., there’s very, very good reasons why the Vichy gov’t and Quisling are viewed so negatively by everyone that isn’t an apologist.
Cool. In this comparison, none of that matters and the Tweet has a completely valid point.
Unless you suspect Biden will be appointing Trump in his cabinet if he wins?
We’ve been saying from day one, that if Biden doesn’t move to the left and use every tool at his disposal to improve people’s material conditions, Trump’s going to win in 2024.
Biden didn’t just not go left, he tried to outflank the republicans from the right by facilitating genocide, ending covid protections, and passing the most draconian border bill since like the 40s.
This is the closest thing he could have done to handing Trump the presidency, short of appointing him VP and stepping down.
Your hyperbole is over the top. Trump’s Title 42 and Muslim ban were far worse.
POTUS has no reasonable control over grocery store prices, which is the part of the economy everyone is most concerned with. Last time an Executive Order was used to price fix the food industry, it blew up in Nixon’s face. Supply chain constraints were industry wide, and when the order expired, prices went up far past standard inflation. The other big concern is housing, which could be addressed with legislation if Democrats had congressional majority.
I completely agree about support of Israel. The only comparison is knowing Trump will be worse for Palestinians. It’s terrible to reconcile, but those are the options.
Abstaining isn’t voting for Trump, it’s refusing to stand in his way.
Trump’s Title 42 and Muslim ban were far worse.
Biden waited 3.5 years to end title 42 and tried to close the border. He has deported more people than Trump.
POTUS has no reasonable control over grocery store prices
He literally does though. But there’s a million other things he could have done when he had control. Instead we just get excuses about how powerless the party controlling both houses and the presidency was because of Manchin or the parliamentarian or the SCOTUS or some rules the dems set for themselves or norms or whatever.
There’s no point in quibbling about whether Biden was less bad than trump, these actions decrease how many people will vote for him. Implementing policy that makes you lose the election is refusing to stand in republican’s way.
Wowsers, that’s horrible! I’ll make sure not to vote for Biden if he nominates Trump as his VP.
Also, Hitler had to declare a state if emergency to gain the absolute power the Supreme Court has just handed to the US president.
Suffice it to say, something lile this is impossible now in Germany. The justices of our highest court, the Bindesverfassungsgericht, can only hold the job for 12 years and can be no older than 68. They are also always equally voted in by two different branches of the government and need a two thirds majority for any decision.
Our democracy isn’t without faults, but this is probably our strongest bulwark against another descent into facsism.
I think Trump will declare a state of emergency as soon as people will riot against his unjust laws. Project 2025 has something about deploying the military against the population to force through deeply unpopular laws.
This is not a shitpost.
Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg. He wasn’t voted in by the people.
Even setting aside the bit of history where the SDP party rallied around Hindenburg because of their deep and abiding fear of the Evil Russian Backed KDP party (god damn, everything old really is new again), there were three different elections from July of '32 to March of '33. The Nazis took 37% of the seats in July, dipped down to 32% in November, and then jumped to 43% the following March.
And then, what really kicked off martial law was the Reichstagg fire, which was blamed on Tankie Antifa Far-Left Communists and used to justify a Nazi-lead state of martial law. Liberals, Conservatives, and Fascists all united under a single banner in their staunch hatred of German Communism.
This was decades after German military police and Freikorps paramilitary groups under Hindenburg crushed the Spartacus League during the 1919 strike wave. The leaders of the movement - Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht, and Franz Mehring - were executed by the police and the organizations disbanded under threat of further imprisonment/execution.
This, in comparison to the Beer Hall Pustch four years later, in which Hitler’s band of low-ranking military officers were tossed in the drunk tank for nine months, before returning to politics and rapidly climbing the ranks on the basis that he’d been martyred by (((bad Germans))) who secretly controlled the government.
Gotta wonder how this compares to the 2014 BLM protests, the subsequent police crackdown, and then the string of BLM leadership “suicides” where members of the movement shot themselves in the head right before being incinerated in their cars. Or the widespread bipartisan/corporate efforts to suppress labor activism in the rail, shipping, and Amazon distribution centers, the automotive industry, and the Starbucks-centric food service sectors.
Or the feeble efforts by US government officials to arrest/convict J6ers, the hand-slap sentencing of Alex Jones and Steve Bannon, and the stubborn refusal to federally prosecute Donald Trump.
Oh well, anyways!
Yeah we have a lot more in common with pre third Reich Germany than people want to talk about and it’s not just a voting for a crazy shouting lunatic thats making the comparison so eerily similar.
The staunch refusal to try and go left and actually make things better and give people to rally behind is gonna do a lot of the heavy lifting of moving people to the right and it’s not appreciated or understood by the people who make the memes about voting for Biden regardless of anything.
That does depend on who is making those memes. The bad faith propaganda meant to further divide the population targets all sides of all issues and it’s another very divisive issue. Any time I see someone making what should be a good point but in a way that will instead increase resistance, I suspect that’s what’s going on. It’s not a certain way to determine if that’s happening; anyone who has read How to Win Friends and Influence People knows that our instincts about persuasion are bad even before any bad faith is involved.
Yeah, and he went away not because they voted him out but thanks to Soviet weapons.
And American weapons. Let’s not pretend that the USSR fought alone.
And Brittish weapons
Land Lease is just a western conspiracy!
It’s Lend-Lease…
I’m voting for Joe!
